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Summer-Glau.com Forum » Summer Glau » Summer Glau appreciation » Does Summer want to be an A-lister?
Does Summer want to be an A-lister?
FordStaffDate: Thursday, 01 Dec 2011, 00:11 | Message # 46
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He had Summer at his disposal for Serenity, how the movie could be bad with her ?

Good actors, at least half decent directing and a good story beats high budget any day IMO.


I agree that Serenity and Firefly had excellent casts, but it does not matter for Blockbusters how good the acting is, it is how much money the actor can bring in that counts. None of the actors in Serenity have the bank-ability factory of A-listers not even now several years later. Not that this is detrimental to the quality of the movie, but certainly does not help performance in the box office.

The main problem Serenity had was that it needed to be satisfying to newcomers, while remaining true to the series. This alone is a huge intrusion, that could have harmed the quality of the movie and did. When I say the quality was damaged, it is not to say the movie wasn't excellent, but at the same time it is impossible for the quality to be as high had a specific demographic been targeted exclusively (well it would have been worse quality if it had targeted newcomers only, but that is besides the point ).

It would have been nice if Serenity had gotten the 100 million dollar budget, but I agree completely that good acting, good story, and good directing will win the day in the end (but lets not be elitist and admit higher budget is beneficial too). The thing about a big budget is that it cannot mask bad acting, nor story. They have to stand on their own.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Thursday, 01 Dec 2011, 00:16
 
BlaziusDate: Thursday, 01 Dec 2011, 00:57 | Message # 47
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I agree that Serenity and Firefly had excellent casts, but it does not matter for Blockbusters how good the acting is, it is how much money the actor can bring in that counts. None of the actors in Serenity have the bank-ability factory of A-listers not even now several years later. Not that this is detrimental to the quality of the movie, but certainly does not help performance in the box office.


I'm not saying that its not seemingly a requirement for blockbusters to have A-listers in the cast. I'm just saying that Serenity was a superb movie despite the low budget mostly because it had superb actors . Serenity wasn't successful box office wise so that wasn't my point to compare box office successes.

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It would have been nice if Serenity had gotten the 100 million dollar budget, but I agree completely that good acting, good story, and good directing will win the day in the end (but lets not be elitist and admit higher budget is beneficial too). The thing about a big budget is that it cannot mask bad acting, nor story. They have to stand on their own.


Of course a higher budget is better but only if its used wisely. Since I'm familiar with SW examples the most I'm going with that example again.

The OT wasn't low on special effects either but there were decent acting and a good story behind the movies. The effects were used to serve the story and give an extra boost to the otherwise still superb movie. The special effects were arguably top notch and they are still superb even after 30+ years IMO.

Yet there weren't scenes where for example the camera stared at a grand and OMG super special effect ship for 30 minutes with an elevated music and you were supposed to be drooling how awesome the effects are. The effects were used as background, helped the story move forward, and set the atmosphere but they never overshadowed the story and the characters.
They wrote the story first and the characters and then they used effects to spice things up. A shot on the Death Star only served to set the place where the conference of Moffs takes place, nothing more, the important thing was the conference itself, what they talked about,how the actors played their parts, etc....

In the PT and in recent movies? They make special effects first and the story is only there as an excuse so they are able to show their latest breakthrough in CGI technology. Avatar was a culmination of this whole trend, an abomination of a movie and a pile of worthless junk. The pattern is the same for all other recent movie too.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
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FordStaffDate: Thursday, 01 Dec 2011, 03:40 | Message # 48
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I'm not saying that its not seemingly a requirement for blockbusters to have A-listers in the cast. I'm just saying that Serenity was a superb movie despite the low budget mostly because it had superb actors . Serenity wasn't successful box office wise so that wasn't my point to compare box office successes.


Ah, I see. Serenity would have been no better if it had a complete rafter of A-list actors. I was very young at the time, but I am fairly certain the lack of any big name is likely the main reason (not the only one) for the box office failure.

I would like to point out that it was not just the great acting in a vacuum, but also the good characterization that enabled the strength of the movie. After all strong characters is Joss Whedon's greatest strength from what I have seen.

Personally I can handle and enjoy any show/movie/whatever if the characters are strong and drive the story, even if I am not all that enthused about the concept and or resolution of the story. (Lost, Misfits, BSG, Firefly, House) - Lost and BSG are particularly good examples as I hated the resolutions, but still love the characters to the point that I still like the show at least somewhat (Lost really pisses me off though, whereas BSG was just stupid, but I could deal). House is an interesting example because most of the characters are terrible, but the one or two goods ones are great enough to salvage the entire show to the level of view worthy to me (and I absolutely hate hate hate procedurals).

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The OT wasn't low on special effects either but there were decent acting and a good story behind the movies. The effects were used to serve the story and give an extra boost to the otherwise still superb movie. The special effects were arguably top notch and they are still superb even after 30+ years IMO.


I completely agree, there is no reason to overdo things even if you can. If the story is satisfied, there is no need for overly flashy things. Overly flashy things are not always bad, just when they are overdrawn or distract from other aspects of the work.

Sometimes flashiness is taken to such extremes that it is detrimental to the work, in terms of suspension of disbelief. Even toned downed shows and movies have ridiculously impossible and impracticable stunts and yet they are nothing compared to the over the top movies and shows.

Sometimes simplistic is good even in fight scenes and such, I liked the Serenity fight scenes more than any other pure fight sequences I have seen, and yet it is fairly straight forward and not too flashy (still ridiculously unlikely, but that is not the point). The OT light-saber fights were also good despite their relative simplicity although at least flashy fights would be justified in SW more than other fictional universes. Both the flashier fights and old fashioned fights are good so long as they can be justified, people just forget simplicity can be good too.

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Yet there weren't scenes where for example the camera stared at a grand and OMG super special effect ship for 30 minutes with an elevated music and you were supposed to be drooling how awesome the effects are. The effects were used as background, helped the story move forward, and set the atmosphere but they never overshadowed the story and the characters.


I remember one scene from Battle Star Galactica in the second season when Pegasus and Galactica join forces imeadietly after the almost civil war to destroy the first resurrection ship that they scouted. Apollo was in a viper, but needed to eject due to damage. For a bit it was just him floating through space watching the Pegasus and Galactica from a distance pound two base-stars. Yet interspersed was Apollo's hallucinations of floating in a body of water.

This scene is interesting because not only do you get the eye candy of space warfare (we all want it), but also a character and atmosphere moment. Apollo is drifting towards death physically and metaphorically as his air runs out, and even the distant battling in the background contributes to the moment, which shown parallel with his hallucinations are very powerful. This is how to use eye candy well, in conjunction and with a story and character moment, that is not just an excuse plot like in the transformers movies or Avatar. It is not just there to feast our eyes upon, but it was certainly a beautiful scene only from a purely visual perspective.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Thursday, 01 Dec 2011, 04:01
 
BlaziusDate: Friday, 02 Dec 2011, 02:19 | Message # 49
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I completely agree, there is no reason to overdo things even if you can. If the story is satisfied, there is no need for overly flashy things. Overly flashy things are not always bad, just when they are overdrawn or distract from other aspects of the work.

Sometimes flashiness is taken to such extremes that it is detrimental to the work, in terms of suspension of disbelief. Even toned downed shows and movies have ridiculously impossible and impracticable stunts and yet they are nothing compared to the over the top movies and shows.

Sometimes simplistic is good even in fight scenes and such, I liked the Serenity fight scenes more than any other pure fight sequences I have seen, and yet it is fairly straight forward and not too flashy (still ridiculously unlikely, but that is not the point). The OT light-saber fights were also good despite their relative simplicity although at least flashy fights would be justified in SW more than other fictional universes. Both the flashier fights and old fashioned fights are good so long as they can be justified, people just forget simplicity can be good too.


Indeed. Its a misconception that flashy effects and even CGI are bad or evil, and needs to be purged from the face of the earth. No, effects are nice as long as we are not drowning in them and it doesn't make the other aspect of the movies irrelevant.

Serenity, TSCC has its share of visual effects( the CGI space battle in Serenity) and nice fighting sequences( Summer herself did insane stunts, thats how she earned her badass factor) too so the Glauverse is not devoid of them either. Yet they still not overshadowing the cool stories and Summers performance and brilliant characters. They make things cooler, spice things up but they don't take over like just like in the SW OT.

Or if we go by SW dueling sequences its very blatant indeed that less is more. In ANH the duel resembled more to standard fencing than anything( Alec Guinness used his fencer past to do the scenes as I heard) . It wasn't all that insanely flashy, it was more elegant instead, and it worked better than the insane stunts because it was more personal. Sword against sword, man against man, it had substance, it was a cool, epic showdown.

ESB and ROTJ broke with this form and the duels turned more medieval style , the swords were used more like longswords of knights, and the battles were spiced with a few tricks like Vaders telekinesis and the sparkling when they missed and cut some objects in half. Still it was a personal and epic battle between good and evil, and had no insane CGI environment and Tarzan-like Jedi swinging above molten lava.Again the little tricks were only nice touches to spice up the longer duel Vaders and Lukes struggle was the defining factor the whole time . Its exciting even after so many years.

Whats now? In ROTS Lucas wanted to show his latest CGI technology so he designed an "epic" last duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan. So he pumped the whole thing with the insane stuff like collapsing buildings, lava and more lava, the above mentioned Tarzan sequence, and Jedi who are spinning their lightsabers in insane and ridiculous patterns. I've waited for that showdown for years since Lucas announced that he wants prequels. Yet I was bored to death by that entire duel and said " Okay I got it, its supposed to be epic. Cut down Anakin already, and get on with it or I'll be bored to death"

The sequence was too flashy even for SW and too long. It wasn't necessary. If they stayed in one room, fighting in the medieval style while hurling some force powers and throwing epic threats on each other showing the philosophical side of the battle it would have been awesome. This way it was just stupid. So yes, the too much special effect and insane stunts actually messed up this long anticipated and important scene horribly.



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FordStaffDate: Friday, 02 Dec 2011, 04:29 | Message # 50
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Serenity, TSCC has its share of visual effects( the CGI space battle in Serenity) and nice fighting sequences( Summer herself did insane stunts, thats how she earned her badass factor) too so the Glauverse is not devoid of them either. Yet they still not overshadowing the cool stories and Summers performance and brilliant characters. They make things cooler, spice things up but they don't take over like just like in the SW OT.


The interesting thing about the CGI space battle in Serenity is that it was not the feel of a typical space battle, more like a blockade run. The camera focused on Serenity flying through the battle, rather than just showing the entire fight from afar.

Summer Glau is one of the few actors who actually deserves the title of badass for those fighting scenes alone, considering she did all of it herself. It took months of training and steak, so it was not an easy task - also she already had considerable muscle memory, hand eye coordination skills, flexibility, and other such things from her dancing background (probably the only reason she could do such things).

I wonder if Joss Whedon thought of this stuff ahead of time when casting Summer in the River role. It is very likely that he knew there would be intense fighting scenes, so it certainly makes the decision more rational despite her inexperience (still seems a bit strange for such a vital role, but I guess Joss is just a good talent spotter). If only we could see more of Summer Glau beating up everyone - not like Cameron though, I liked River fighting better.

I mean seriously she should get some award, it is the one of the best if not best fight scene ever. When the effort is so considerable and the product so great there ought to be more recognition, not even just to Summer. Please tell me if I am being completely biased (my fight scene repertoire isn't exactly big), but I do not see how the two fighting scenes in Serenity are not the golden standard.



Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Friday, 02 Dec 2011, 04:57
 
BlaziusDate: Friday, 02 Dec 2011, 08:11 | Message # 51
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Summer Glau is one of the few actors who actually deserves the title of badass for those fighting scenes alone, considering she did all of it herself. It took months of training and steak, so it was not an easy task - also she already had considerable muscle memory, hand eye coordination skills, flexibility, and other such things from her dancing background (probably the only reason she could do such things).


Thats very true. She did the fight scenes herself which not many actors do male or female. It wasn't an easy task for her, she said it was very exhausting, to the point that she sometimes cried after she got home. Yet she made it from start to finish. This shows that she is very strong both mentally and physically.

Somebody who doesn't know anything about her may confuse her with your regular princess like woman, more so because of her fragile looking appearance, yet she is more a man than anybody else in Hollywood and she deserves more the badass status than anybody else that she endured so much so Serenity can be as perfect as possible. And she made it perfect not just because she is so tough but because of her incredible abilities she picked up as a dancer which not only made her stunts possible but made the fights graceful and breathtaking. I've never seen such beautiful fighting moves ever before.

So yes, I'd like all those talentless, useless idiotic pretenders who they call "actors" today to shut up and go to hell so maybe a truly great actor, artist, fighter could finally get her just reward and crowned as Queen of all actors once and for all. Not just for the fighting scenes which'd worth tons of awards themselves but for all the superb and marvellous work she has done in her career already.

But stupidity cannot be rooted out permanently ever so I'd be content if Summer could find happiness and joy in her works and in her life no matter what. Thats the most important anyway. I want that when the day comes when she retires and she looks back, she'll see how great things she has done and how many people she made happy with her work and she says that "It was worth it that I became an artist" and not a teacher or engineer or something like that.


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Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!


Message edited by Blazius - Friday, 02 Dec 2011, 08:29
 
chrisdvanne_Date: Friday, 02 Dec 2011, 10:48 | Message # 52
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I mean seriously she should get some award, it is the one of the best if not best fight scene ever. When the effort is so considerable and the product so great there ought to be more recognition, not even just to Summer. Please tell me if I am being completely biased (my fight scene repertoire isn't exactly big), but I do not see how the two fighting scenes in Serenity are not the golden standard.




The legend says that the training was so hard and intense that she had to quit being a veggie. Besides the fact she did 95% of the fight herself, there is no "heavy cutting" but long movie takes which makes the fight more fluid and the audience sees literaly a ballet not a fight sequence.
Just like you, i don't understand how Whedon could have given such a pivotal and complex role to an inexperienced actress like Summer (at the time).


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FordStaffDate: Friday, 02 Dec 2011, 19:41 | Message # 53
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Just like you, i don't understand how Whedon could have given such a pivotal and complex role to an inexperienced actress like Summer (at the time).


Thank goodness that he took a risk, it was well worth it. There is not a single person in Hollywood who could have executed the River role as well, not just the fighting either. Not to mention it launched Summer's career, even if science fiction is not the best starting point. Had Summer performed so well in a well known non-SF pure drama, (cause SF can't have drama dry ) I have no doubt the rewards would be raining down on her. At least she got the consolation prize of being crowned the queen of an entire genre, you don't see that happen with police procedurals (then again this may mean nothing to her, she does not seem a fan of SF, hopefully at the very least it shows her she has huge support in spite of the cult classic nature of her material). It's stupidly ridiculous the lengths required to get respect as an actor in the SF genre.

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The legend says that the training was so hard and intense that she had to quit being a veggie.


That's why I mentioned that it took some steak for her to do the fight scenes biggrin . Odd that she was a vegetarian to begin with, in Texas and all. Of course then again Ballerinas are not going to be stereo-typical Texans, I am not even one and I do not have that excuse - I did live in Austin though.

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Somebody who doesn't know anything about her may confuse her with your regular princess like woman, more so because of her fragile looking appearance, yet she is more a man than anybody else in Hollywood


I would be careful with that phrasing, I get what you mean, but it is a bad idea to keep associating badassness with manhood. I do not like to think that because River (and Summer) could kick ass that they are now a "man" for many reasons. In fact I just ignore the traditional manly and womanly associations, they lead to very unfortunate consequences. River is just as much a woman if she can knock out Jayne as non-action girl Kaylee is, just like non-action guy Wash is as much a man as Malcolm. If your a man your a man, if your a woman your a woman, that can not be taken away by having qualities commonly associated with the opposite gender, whether correct or not. Yet this is the view that people often take - losing man cards and other such nonsense. We would be better off if qualities were not associated with specific genders.

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Not just for the fighting scenes which'd worth tons of awards themselves but for all the superb and marvellous work she has done in her career already.


Her acting is just as amazing as her fighting was that much is true, but the fighting particularly demonstrates how seriously she takes her work.

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But stupidity cannot be rooted out permanently ever so I'd be content if Summer could find happiness and joy in her works and in her life no matter what. Thats the most important anyway. I want that when the day comes when she retires and she looks back, she'll see how great things she has done and how many people she made happy with her work and she says that "It was worth it that I became an artist" and not a teacher or engineer or something like that.


I wish this fate upon every sentience in existence, but Summer is definitely a priority over most others. I am not sure why you comment about the teachers or engineers, I think that everyone should do exactly what they find satisfaction in wherever that career path is so long as has something to offer (so obviously not if it is harmful to others overall - not speaking against soldiers, complicated but hopefully you get what I mean). Many people think that Artistry is not productive, but I would beg to differ. Life would be missing something great without it.

My only goal in life is that once I am in my death bed, I can be satisfied with my actions looking back. I am certain most people would trade any amount of awards for the alternative of living a well spent life. But the whole spirit of awards is to distinguish actions, people, etc., so while they are being thrown around we might as well give them meaning by making them proper. The majority of things are not good, that which is ought to be recognized - not even mainly for the receiver of the award, but for society as a whole.

The most important thing is as you say, and I do not lie when I say that I wish that fate upon everyone. That is not to say I wish it for everyone equally, Summer would be high on my list.


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BlaziusDate: Friday, 02 Dec 2011, 21:28 | Message # 54
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I would be careful with that phrasing, I get what you mean, but it is a bad idea to keep associating badassness with manhood. I do not like to think that because River (and Summer) could kick ass that they are now a "man" for many reasons. In fact I just ignore the traditional manly and womanly associations, they lead to very unfortunate consequences. River is just as much a woman if she can knock out Jayne as non-action girl Kaylee is, just like non-action guy Wash is as much a man as Malcolm. If your a man your a man, if your a woman your a woman, that can not be taken away by having qualities commonly associated with the opposite gender, whether correct or not. Yet this is the view that people often take - losing man cards and other such nonsense. We would be better off if qualities were not associated with specific genders.


Maybe the phrasing wasn't lucky, obviously I wanted to write that she is more...you know, tougher and more a warrior personality wise and physically than any other man or woman in the industry. In this case she is more man than most man and more a woman than most woman in Hollywood if its understandable what I want to say wacko . Lets say that she is the ultimate badass and not just her characters but she, the real person too.

The real Summer herself would deserve a movie adaptation of her life and that'd be incredibly awesome in itself. Its incredibly hard to find such a strong person and not just in Hollywood, but anywhere.

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Her acting is just as amazing as her fighting was that much is true, but the fighting particularly demonstrates how seriously she takes her work.


If you pay attention then her acting demonstrates beautifully too how seriously she takes her work. She couldn't do such a brilliant work, making so many difficult characters come to life in such unique manner, and portraying so moving, outbursting emotions during her career if she didn't invested all her attention and energy into her works.

Through its true that the fighting scenes required her the most investment. She made sacrifices for it and her body was strained to the upper limit. Without her incredible strength I believe everybody else, even the most devoted actors would quit but not her. I can't even imagine what drove her to be so strong. If its her love for her job then its true that she is incredibly devoted to acting( thats an understatement).

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The legend says that the training was so hard and intense that she had to quit being a veggie.


Did she turned back into veggie after the training or she decided that doesn't work for her apparently?

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I wish this fate upon every sentience in existence, but Summer is definitely a priority over most others.


In my worldview there are three different kind of people( OK a brutally oversimplified version of my worldview). The harmful people who take away more than they give, they don't deserve any happiness and should be get rid of( think about terrorists, mass murderers, or similar criminals, and those who do crimes more subtly but they harm others so they can live better). Then there are the people who give as many as they take( like most normal people) , they deserve happiness, they usually don't have the means to give more than they take or they are not strong enough to make the required sacrifices( I don't think I could do what Summer did for example).

Then there are those who give more than they take. Thats Summer. Their happiness is a priority because they made a lot of people happy even by making sacrifices and enduring much. They deserve recognition and rewards and support because their work is benefitial to the whole society. They should be protected from harm and should be ensured with a happy life as a reward for their efforts. They are what you'd call true heroes in a comic book.

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I I am not sure why you comment about the teachers or engineers, I think that everyone should do exactly what they find satisfaction in wherever that career path is so long as has something to offer (so obviously not if it is harmful to others overall - not speaking against soldiers, complicated but hopefully you get what I mean). Many people think that Artistry is not productive, but I would beg to differ. Life would be missing something great without it.


I don't comment on them specifically. I'm just saying that becoming an artist like an actor is considered more of a gamble than a more "straightforward" career. Its pretty sure that you'll earn money with an engineer job one way or another but you must be lucky to become a well payed actor.

I think Summer took a risk with becoming an artist and that she stayed one after her injury instead of going to a school to learn something else( I'm 100% sure she is clever enough to become an engineer or something like that if she wanted). What I'm saying is that I don't want her to regret her choice in any way, we know there is nothing to regret, she already gave more to the world than she could if she chose another way but sometimes I feel that she doesn't want to believe that.

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But the whole spirit of awards is to distinguish actions, people, etc., so while they are being thrown around we might as well give them meaning by making them proper. The majority of things are not good, that which is ought to be recognized - not even mainly for the receiver of the award, but for society as a whole.


That'd be the purpose of awards, yes. But since Hollywood made those awards a parody of themselves by giving them to the wrong people and denying them of the right people their meaning had been twisted and they doesn't mean what they meant originally. So they are useless now IMO.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
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FordStaffDate: Friday, 02 Dec 2011, 22:40 | Message # 55
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That'd be the purpose of awards, yes. But since Hollywood made those awards a parody of themselves by giving them to the wrong people and denying them of the right people their meaning had been twisted and they doesn't mean what they meant originally. So they are useless now IMO.


They are not completely useless, generally there are some good things that get awards. The problem is that the awards are swayed HEAVILY by biases from the entertainment media and without. Sure the things that get awards are good, but since they ignore a big chunk of things for awards they are not the best (sometimes/usually at least). For example good luck if your comedy or if you really want to shoot yourself go SF. It should be noted that it is not JUST Hollywood that does this behavior, awards of all types have been messed with for many reasons.

I can give two contrasting examples with US Presidents. Theodore Roosevelt was not given the medal of honor at first despite leading two cavalry charges on horse (no one else was on a horse ). Mainly for political reasons. Barack Obama got the Nobel peace prize despite there being non famous people who would match much better. (not starting political debate, even the staunchest supporters of Obama should admit this is true - he himself did - just as a disclaimer I would have voted for him and still would if I was 18 during the 2008 election, so this is not a character assassination attempt) I read many Presidential biographies, not like a pussy either - usually multiple volumes. That is why I am always using President's as examples - just so you know, it may seem odd.

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The real Summer herself would deserve a movie adaptation of her life and that'd be incredibly awesome in itself. Its incredibly hard to find such a strong person and not just in Hollywood, but anywhere.


I agree that Summer is a very strong person and has an interesting life, but a movie adaptation of her life would be taking it way to far. That should be reserved to people who are crazy awesome and important (not that Summer is not important, but hopefully you get what I mean). It is not as if having a good life and being strong will translate into a good movie.

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Did she turned back into veggie after the training or she decided that doesn't work for her apparently?


I am fairly certain that after training for Serenity Summer never went back to being a full vegetarian, but do not go and bet your life fortune on it. Eating meat for the training was not because she did not want to be a vegetarian, but rather because it was the only way to get enough protein for the training. Why she did not go back to vegetarian I do not know, perhaps she has, but from what I have read she still ate meat afterwards at least for a while (still may not sure).

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In my worldview there are three different kind of people( OK a brutally oversimplified version of my worldview). The harmful people who take away more than they give, they don't deserve any happiness and should be get rid of( think about terrorists, mass murderers, or similar criminals, and those who do crimes more subtly but they harm others so they can live better). Then there are the people who give as many as they take( like most normal people) , they deserve happiness, they usually don't have the means to give more than they take or they are not strong enough to make the required sacrifices( I don't think I could do what Summer did for example).


While I have no problem with your three classifications of individuals, my view is that literally no sentience deserves punishment. I should clarify that if a mass murder appeared in my room I would take no hesitation at all to put a bullet in their brain. I would not however sentence them to hell or any such thing, if something is a threat to others they ought to be put down, I just do not think there should be eternal retribution. If there is punishment it should only be what is required to keep the individual from harming everyone else in other words. I doubt many people agree perhaps you included and that is fine with me.

I know this is the Summer Glau wiki and I have much respect for Summer, but I think your being too generous. You make it sound as if Summer is in the very highest pantheon of human excellence, I can not say for certain that is not true, but it is unlikely if we are going to keep very high standards (very very very few people would qualify, if any). Not only that, but it is a little presumptuous considering we are not even people who know her. Make no mistake I also believe Summer is an awesome example of a human being, but lets be realistic in our praise or it will be meaningless.

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I don't comment on them specifically. I'm just saying that becoming an artist like an actor is considered more of a gamble than a more "straightforward" career. Its pretty sure that you'll earn money with an engineer job one way or another but you must be lucky to become a well payed actor.


Your meaning is clear now, on original reading I was under the impression that you were looking down on people who were fulfilled by being Engineers or Teachers. To be fair Summer is very attractive, so it is not as if she was terribly handicapped going into acting - still a very big risk compared to most fields of work. There is a huge double standard for female actors, you'll need a hell of a lot more than tons of luck if your not at least well above average looking. Male actors on the other hand can do just fine looking ugly as hell (still better to look good, but not the the extent women have it).

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I think Summer took a risk with becoming an artist and that she stayed one after her injury instead of going to a school to learn something else( I'm 100% sure she is clever enough to become an engineer or something like that if she wanted).


That is a big assumption, she was home-schooled so it would be impossible to tell. There is no information I have seen on her Academic abilities. I am not saying she would not be able to pursue an academic career path, but I am not going to say she could either. Again your being a bit to generous, there is no need to assume she can do everything under the sun. Sticking with the things we know is already compliments enough - with the important difference of being observable.

There is a tendency to turn human beings into perfect statues that no human could possibly live up to. A very common mistake, every human is flawed, but if they are still better than the majority of humanity then there is no need for polishing. I would not be so nit picky, but it is this type of behavior that causes hype aversion, or fan-base aversion. Would not want Summer's fanbase to get the reputation of Joss Whedon's fanbase.

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. What I'm saying is that I don't want her to regret her choice in any way


Agreed, but if she were to regret something I have doubts it would be about missing out on engineering. It would more likely have to do with the nature of her acting and dancing careers, but lets hope that is not the case. At least not to a greater extent than normal, most everyone has regrets.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Friday, 02 Dec 2011, 22:55
 
BlaziusDate: Saturday, 03 Dec 2011, 01:35 | Message # 56
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They are not completely useless, generally there are some good things that get awards. The problem is that the awards are swayed HEAVILY by biases from the entertainment media and without. Sure the things that get awards are good, but since they ignore a big chunk of things for awards they are not the best (sometimes/usually at least). For example good luck if your comedy or if you really want to shoot yourself go SF. It should be noted that it is not JUST Hollywood that does this behavior, awards of all types have been messed with for many reasons.


Bias always played a huge role in every awarding but my problem is that its so apparent now and give so blatantly false results that the results are somewhat became meaningless at least for me. Granted if something is so good and popular that you can't get away from giving it a prize without mass revolting audience then they reward that too but if it is just as good but it happens to be too obscure then it will get nothing.

Just an example: The Hurt Locker beat the Avatar as the best film in the Oscar awards? I know its politics and it got a massive bias but give me a break. There are other ways to honor the soldiers in Iraq not by making a scandalous act like this. I'd make a better movie in my basement with my friends. Now if they really cared about Iraq then make a movie which is worth watching and honors them really.

That was the last straw for me to get absolutely disillusioned with awards. Oh, and Natalie Portman got an Oscar? Cute. It doesn't hurt that her acting isn't better than a wood trunks especially if you compare her to Summer or even other actors.

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I agree that Summer is a very strong person and has an interesting life, but a movie adaptation of her life would be taking it way to far. That should be reserved to people who are crazy awesome and important (not that Summer is not important, but hopefully you get what I mean). It is not as if having a good life and being strong will translate into a good movie.


I've already seen movies about relatively unknown sport personalities( at least I didn't know them). Of course for a movie like this Summer should get a bit more notoriety and a few Oscars but then it'd be doable I think.

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While I have no problem with your three classifications of individuals, my view is that literally no sentience deserves punishment. I should clarify that if a mass murder appeared in my room I would take no hesitation at all to put a bullet in their brain. I would not however sentence them to hell or any such thing, if something is a threat to others they ought to be put down, I just do not think there should be eternal retribution. If there is punishment it should only be what is required to keep the individual from harming everyone else in other words. I doubt many people agree perhaps you included and that is fine with me.


Sorry, I tend to be a bit radical sometimes especially if its about harmful people. I don't say that its a good approach, maybe not but thats my view. A person who already chose to hurt somebody on purpose has already accepted that he/she has to pay the price once and hopefully they do. They deserve equal suffering as they caused if not more, that'd be fair. Problem is that nobody can enforce such a law to the extend it'd work. If they could that'd be a trap in itself because that'd be dictatorship which would ensure that an evil doer could achieve even more power to hurt people. So there we are again. Nothing can be perfect, because humans are flawed themselves.

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I know this is the Summer Glau wiki and I have much respect for Summer, but I think your being too generous. You make it sound as if Summer is in the very highest pantheon of human excellence, I can not say for certain that is not true, but it is unlikely if we are going to keep very high standards (very very very few people would qualify, if any). Not only that, but it is a little presumptuous considering we are not even people who know her. Make no mistake I also believe Summer is an awesome example of a human being, but lets be realistic in our praise or it will be meaningless.


She is not a superhero of course however society too easily forgets about what I'd call "the every day heroes of our life". People with extraordinary abilities who help build society and improve our lives. They can be anything from superb artists to scientists who invent new medicines. Its not fair that they have to fight against the odds sometimes even harder than those who chose to play it safe instead and remain passive even if they have abilities. I'd design a system that works a bit like a school for specially gifted children( not the Firefly type obviously). Politicians get all kinds of privileges, I say the gifted people who proved their worth already to society should get equal privileges as their work is equally important. Of course that'd require a system which selects who deserves it but thats another question. Maybe they should even get money or they wouldn't have to pay taxes or only halved amount of taxes or whatever. I'd be far happier if I knew my money goes to Summer and helps her in her way of an artist than to a fat politician who already stole more of my money than he'd deserve.

Quote (FordStaff)
That is a big assumption, she was home-schooled so it would be impossible to tell. There is no information I have seen on her Academic abilities. I am not saying she would not be able to pursue an academic career path, but I am not going to say she could either. Again your being a bit to generous, there is no need to assume she can do everything under the sun. Sticking with the things we know is already compliments enough - with the important difference of being observable.


I've seen engineers who stumbled through school somehow but can't string two sensible sentence together and constantly fail to solve problems till somebody who really knows anything about engineering solves the problem for them. i think Summer could be at least that good if not better if she tried. Also she wouldn't have to be a professor. What if she turns to be an English teacher? She would obviously have affinity for literature, as an actress she has every ability required as it seems. She'd have tons of options besides a dancer or an actress and I'm 100% sure she hasn't became a dancer and an actress because she is too stupid to be something else. You apparently confuse her with the fresh meat eyecandy actresses.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!


Message edited by Blazius - Saturday, 03 Dec 2011, 02:02
 
FordStaffDate: Saturday, 03 Dec 2011, 02:51 | Message # 57
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Oh, and Natalie Portman got an Oscar? Cute. It doesn't hurt that her acting isn't better than a wood trunks especially if you compare her to Summer or even other actors.


Natalie Portman is not a very good actor, she should not be a-list material. How did she make it to a-list ? Was it the Padme role, the acting was terrible, and the role was even worse. If that was the role where she made it to the a-list that is quite sad. Her getting an Oscar is laughable.

I don't follow the Oscars much, but it seems to me sometimes they give out Oscars to actors not for their acting but for what material they get a chance to be in, but only if they are notable enough. It is as if the movie is pre-made for the sole purpose of winning an actor an Oscar, whether they are any good or not. Bullshit plain and simple.

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I've already seen movies about relatively unknown sport personalities. Of course for a movie like this Summer should get a bit more notoriety and a few Oscars but then it'd be doable I think.


The only thing I can honestly say about it this is that it would probably end very terribly. I am open to the idea that it could be done well, I just find it so unlikely that I would never suggest that it be done. The risk to benefit ratio is not in good favor. Not all notoriety is good.

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Sorry, I tend to be a bit radical sometimes especially if its about harmful people. I don't say that its a good approach, maybe not but thats my view. A person who already chose to hurt somebody on purpose has already accepted that he/she has to pay the price once and hopefully they do. They deserve equal suffering as they caused if not more, that'd be fair. Problem is that nobody can enforce such a law to the extend it'd work. If they could that'd be a trap in itself because that'd be dictatorship which would ensure that an evil doer could achieve even more power to hurt people. So there we are again. Nothing can be perfect, because humans are flawed themselves.


I was thinking more along the lines of our eternal destination, not punishment in this world. A vast majority of people believe in eternal punishment. I refuse to believe in such a thing not only rationally, but morally, even for the worst of humanity (or any sentience). Best we not get too much more into this subject though, very testy, although the members of this forum a far more mature and reasonable than 99.9999999% of the internet (not an exaggeration biggrin ), so if anyone could handle it this would be a good place - even so not wise to dig into.

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She is not a superhero of course however society too easily forgets about what I'd call "the every day heroes of our life". People with extraordinary abilities who help build society and improve our lives. They can be anything from superb artists to scientists who invent new medicines. Its not fair that they have to fight against the odds sometimes even harder than those who chose to play it safe instead and remain passive even if they have abilities.


I remember the every day heroes. Society needs many roles to function, best not to look down on anyone for doing everyone else a favor (even if it is in their own self-interest). As an actor Summer is top tier, and we could separate everyone into categories and rate them from within. I was a bit misleading, when I said Summer is not in the top pantheon of humanity, I mean the overall best human beings of all time.

That takes extraordinary circumstances, skills, and actions to achieve. I read lots of biographies and the only three humans that I would confidently place in this pantheon is George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and George Orwell - there would be others, but I know a lot about these men so I can be somewhat confident (it is a very biased list, mainly white western men, but for a comprehensive list I would need encyclopedic knowledge). Summer is a great role model and human being, but not nearly on the level of legend.

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I'd design a system that works a bit like a school for specially gifted children( not the Firefly type obviously).


The Alliance was pretty dumb for slicing up River just to make a super soldier (it is implied by rational thinking that the alliance was trying to study psychic powers too, so it would not be completely illogical). She would be far more valuable as an asset as an intellectual with the intelligence levels she showed on the show (off the charts of a chart filled with geniuses). May-by Ender's Game training ; ) . River in an Ender's Game crossover would be pretty cool, the child soldiers in Ender's universe were messed up, but not quite so much as River. When do child soldiers ever work out in fiction anyways? For that matter "special school" for gifted children seems like a horrible idea most of the time also, unless your one of the lucky ones.

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I'd be far happier if I knew my money goes to Summer and helps her in her way of an artist than to a fat politician who already stole more of my money than he'd deserve.


I am fairly certain Summer gets by fine as do all actors with somewhat regular roles (don't they?). Actors are not the artists who need a tax break, in fact once most type of artists proves themselves they rarely need much financial help anymore (unless they are completely stupid with money). In fact it is the lower down artists that do not get the public's eye who could use such things more, not the actors, musicians, and authors.

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I've seen engineers who stumbled through school somehow but can't string two sensible sentence together and constantly fail to solve problems till somebody who really knows anything about engineering solves the problem for them.


I hope your not foreshadowing my future here. wacko You certainly do not need to be a genius to be an engineer, but there are still many people who have trouble with basic calculus, which is a big time problem. This is one of those things we do not know about Summer, how proficient is she in math? Can she barely get through a Calculus class or is it the easiest class she had, we do not know (assuming her homeschooling had calculus). It could be either way, there is not justification for a conclusion. We simply do not know Summer well enough, and never will under any normal circumstances.

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She would obviously have affinity for literature, as an actress she has every ability required as it seems.


We can not make that conclusion at all, just like we can not assume that every Ballerina is going to be an amazing actress, just because it happens to work big time for Summer. I am not sure why you think being an actress gives you an affinity for literature, that is simply not true.

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She'd have tons of options besides a dancer or an actress and I'm 100% sure she hasn't became a dancer and an actress because she is too stupid to be something else. You apparently confuse her with the fresh meat eyecandy actresses.


I do not think she is too stupid to do something else, but I severely doubt she would be nearly as good at anything else as she is at acting - and probably dancing when she danced, but that is an assumption since I have not seen it. Again I am making no assumption as there is no justification for either conclusion.

I think it can be stated very confidently that she is not an idiot, but beyond that it could be anywhere from slightly below average to somewhat above average at least in my estimation. That is a pretty big range, simply because there is not much to information. Just because Summer acts far superior in acting talent to eye candy fresh meat actresses does not mean that she is more intelligent than them, that is bias speaking.

I am not trying to say Summer is stupid, she could even be very intelligent, my point is that all we can really know is that we do not know. Of course she did not do dancing because she was stupid, she started when she was about 6 (or was it 4, very very young is the point). She is an entertainer and artist that is why she did dancing, and then acting. That is great answer, intelligence is irrelevant. It would not change my view of her if she had average intelligence, so I see no reason to assume she is smart.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Saturday, 03 Dec 2011, 02:59
 
BlaziusDate: Saturday, 03 Dec 2011, 05:02 | Message # 58
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I don't follow the Oscars much, but it seems to me sometimes they give out Oscars to actors not for their acting but for what material they get a chance to be in, but only if they are notable enough. It is as if the movie is pre-made for the sole purpose of winning an actor an Oscar, whether they are any good or not. Bullshit plain and simple.


Thats why I don't care if Summer gets an Oscar or not. Who cares if she wouldn't get it for her skills anyway but only for her luck?

Quote (FordStaff)
Natalie Portman is not a very good actor, she should not be a-list material. How did she make it to a-list ? Was it the Padme role, the acting was terrible, and the role was even worse. If that was the role where she made it to the a-list that is quite sad. Her getting an Oscar is laughable.


Thats right. In SW she was abysmal, not just her, her character was abysmal too but if she were any better than a wood trunk she could get something out of it. She wasn't so it was a catastrophy. But Lucas probably said "Who cares if we have Jar-Jar?" Yes I know, he is clueless dry

I don't know how Portman became a-lister. Who is her father? If her father iis a top dog somewhere then he could make his daughter a-lister artifically.


Quote (FordStaff)
I was thinking more along the lines of our eternal destination, not punishment in this world. A vast majority of people believe in eternal punishment. I refuse to believe in such a thing not only rationally, but morally, even for the worst of humanity (or any sentience). Best we not get too much more into this subject though, very testy, although the members of this forum a far more mature and reasonable than 99.9999999% of the internet (not an exaggeration ), so if anyone could handle it this would be a good place - even so not wise to dig into.


Indeed! Lets drop this then.

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I remember the every day heroes. Society needs many roles to function, best not to look down on anyone for doing everyone else a favor (even if it is in their own self-interest). As an actor Summer is top tier, and we could separate everyone into categories and rate them from within. I was a bit misleading, when I said Summer is not in the top pantheon of humanity, I mean the overall best human beings of all time.

That takes extraordinary circumstances, skills, and actions to achieve. I read lots of biographies and the only three humans that I would confidently place in this pantheon is George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and George Orwell - there would be others, but I know a lot about these men so I can be somewhat confident (it is a very biased list, mainly white western men, but for a comprehensive list I would need encyclopedic knowledge). Summer is a great role model and human being, but not nearly on the level of legend.


My problem with bringing up politicians as overall good beings of humanity iis that its rather subjective even if you throughly examined their biographies( not even start with how you verify a source as genuine and not propaganda). Every country has its heroes and great leaders and citizens of said countries will always take their own leaders above the other countries. So you can't pronounce with absolute certainty who is the absolute good.

So I think it only makes sense if we are talking about the everyday heroes.

For example Summer didn't sign a big treaty which created a huge country which was a blessing for most of the denizens of the area because unity brought peace to them while other smaller countries which were forcefully integrated into it curse her name because they are losing their customs and llanguage( I'm just making up a story here, I don't want to refer to anything)

On the other hand she made a lot of people happy and gave something to the overall artistic culture of all humanity. I'd say thats more universally good. And she and other gifted people in the fields of life are overally responsible for our advancement. Or do you think the great heroes of various countries brought about the advancement of humanity all by themselves?

Thats the problem with humanity I think. We always pick one person usually a politician and crown him( usually a "him") as the all savior of the country, of humanity, the reason of change etc. We search for a messiah, we even conceive whole religions around them. Yet you know who are the ones who are always there to make things right? To improve life in every way they can , even suffering for our stupidity while doing so? Those who were called heretics, who were called mad, whose works were mocked and some of them died without anybody saying to them " We are sorry, you were right, we were wrong".

Think about great inventors, great poets, artists. Even entertainers are looked down upon " Its just entertainment", yet what we'd do without entertainment?

Thats why I'm saying that while we cling to people who get celebrated for something a whole nation prepared for them or fictional heroes of our own imagination we are neglecting the only people we should be truly grateful to. Those who are using their gifts to help every human.

Maybe an actress is not the most important( although she is very important too to keep up the balance) but then I'd say a scientist who invented medicines, stopping diseases which'd kill whole nations along with their heroic leaders would deserve far more recognition.

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I think it can be stated very confidently that she is not an idiot, but beyond that it could be anywhere from slightly below average to somewhat above average at least in my estimation. That is a pretty big range, simply because there is not much to information. Just because Summer acts far superior in acting talent to eye candy fresh meat actresses does not mean that she is more intelligent than them, that is bias speaking.


I'd doubt she could give a far more intelligent interview and description of her roles if she were an idiot like some of the fresh meats. Also I attribute her superior morality to a superior intelligence as you can only have a good morality if you somewhat understand the consequences of your actions, and I found that most actors are incapable of doing that unlike Summer.

Still maybe she is not a math genius but as I said before you don't have to be a genius to get the job. But engineering is not a good example for Summer so lets make her a teacher instead.

I suggested an English teacher because thats the closest to acting I think. You get to memorize a lot of poems for example, just like how Summer memorizes passages from the script e.g she has a good memory. Also you have to understand characters and how they work in a story from a work which is an ability Summer shows when she interprets a character with her acting( maybe thats even harder what she does). Also I've seen examples of an actor( although stage actor) becoming a literature teacher and the other way around( through the teacher did amateur acting only)

And if everything fails then she could still be a teacher in an elementary school. If she can write and read( I see no evidence that she can't unless her mother is the one who reads the scripts for her) then she'll do just fine I think.

And don't forget that she is very diligent in everything she does, that'd double her chances to learn a profession even if its somewhat above her.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
FordStaffDate: Saturday, 03 Dec 2011, 06:22 | Message # 59
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I don't know how Portman became a-lister. Who is her father? If her father iis a top dog somewhere then he could make his daughter a-lister artifically.


I have no clue, all I know is that it should never have happened, whatever the reason.

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My problem with bringing up politicians as overall good beings of humanity iis that its rather subjective even if you throughly examined their biographies( not even start with how you verify a source as genuine and not propaganda). Every country has its heroes and great leaders and citizens of said countries will always take their own leaders above the other countries. So you can't pronounce with absolute certainty who is the absolute good.


I guarantee you I was not being biased in my pickings, my reference pool may have been biased, but my three choices have been not only very high in integrity, but very high in their contribution to humanity. I would add more to the list of scientist actors and such, but I know far more about the personal lives of politicians, because as I have said I read many US President biographies - often multiple volumes. All three put their bodies on the line multiple times in war, and yet that is the very least of their contributions.

Going in to reading on George Washington I was thinking he would be highly overrated, but he deserves his place as Father of the United States, and is one of the few (very few) (very very very few) people in history not to take the option of ultimate power over the goverment, even when he could easily have done so. Not only did he not take it for himself, but he made sure that there was not a coup for someone else to take power by pure sway of his personality and acclaim with his soldiers alone. Lafayette deserves a shout out for being one of the few others in history not to accept a crown (he was actually directly asked too). Of note is that Washington was a father figure to Lafayette.

I mention this just so you know that my choices were just off the top of my head and I wanted to make sure the choices were quality persons, not just people that I have been told are - thus the reason I chose two Presidents. I have read enough about them to know they were remarkable people in many facets, including sacrifice (one of the important factors in my mind). Admittedly I am biased to upholders of western style democracy, but that is not such a bad thing now is it.

Not all politicians are bastions of humanity after all, I only mentioned 2 out of many tens of thousands (The United States has many politicians compared to other Western Democracies, federalism system and all). Notice all my examples were not JUST politicians, Theodore Roosevelt was a writer/author, hunter, cattle rancher, Assistant Secretary of the Navy, Volunteer Soldier, etc. etc., this man was insane. The only pure politician of good moral fiber and contributions all the way through that comes to mind is John Adams - do not confuse with his scum bag cousin Samuel Adams. The thing about a political job is that it is considered a public service, so while many are attracted by acclaim and power, there are those who are attracted to serve their country and humanity - George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and John Adams being good examples. Their laundry list of accomplishments is unmatched by any other democratic politicians, not just within the political arena.

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Thats the problem with humanity I think. We always pick one person usually a politician and crown him( usually a "him") as the all savior of the country, of humanity, the reason of change etc.


That does not happen very often, almost no politicians get that treatment. Off the top of my head George Washington, Mahatma Gandhi, Abraham Lincoln are the only ones that come to mind within the three seconds I wrote that. And yes as I have said I read mostly American History so my reference pool is very limited. That is pretty good company I would say, you make it sound like any random politician takes this position, but that is not the case. Only a select few, and they may have flaws like every other human, but it would be a difficult task to find better examples of humanity. The only problem with this type of thinking is assuming we need a good leader to do the right thing.

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On the other hand she made a lot of people happy and gave something to the overall artistic culture of all humanity. I'd say thats more universally good. And she and other gifted people in the fields of life are overally responsible for our advancement. Or do you think the great heroes of various countries brought about the advancement of humanity all by themselves?


There is a reason War Heroes, Country Founders, Scientists and other such things are looked up to. Not because everyone else does not offer anything to society, but because without these guys there would be no chance for the artists to create art in the first place. There is a quote by John Adams that applies here --

"The science of government it is my duty to study, more than all other sciences; the arts of legislation and administration and negotiation ought to take the place of, indeed exclude, in a manner, all other arts. I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain. "

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Maybe an actress is not the most important( although she is very important too to keep up the balance) but then I'd say a scientist who invented medicines, stopping diseases which'd kill whole nations along with their heroic leaders would deserve far more recognition.


Just to make clear my three examples were who I considered to be in the TOP pantheon of humanity, that requires not only great contributions to humanity, they need to be exemplary human beings themselves. Some scientists are complete pricks, others such as Einstein and Richard Feynman are great human beings in more ways than just making a contribution to our understanding of the Universe, and that is the distinction with those I would consider the greatest human beings of all time. Artists are completely welcome, but circumstances need to show they are willing to really put it on the line. I do not think Summer has yet to be shot through the neck by standing for her principles like George Orwell did.

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Think about great inventors, great poets, artists. Even entertainers are looked down upon " Its just entertainment", yet what we'd do without entertainment?


Yes this is true, but it is wrong. They are as much contributors to humanities experience as scientists, politicians, engineers, whatever. People who deprive themselves of arts are really missing a large component of life experiences. It try to get a bit of everything, from Shakespeare to Epic Poetry. I wish I knew the native tongues, I am sure The Divine Comedy is vastly superior in Italian. Even less respected entertainment fields such as comedy deserve thanks and respect.

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Also I attribute her superior morality to a superior intelligence as you can only have a good morality if you somewhat understand the consequences of your actions, and I found that most actors are incapable of doing that unlike Summer.


That is not a very good attribution, intelligence only makes clear the consequences of the actions, morality is about which consequences you are going for, not the actions themselves. If a mentally disabled child was trying to hand you food because you were hungry by throwing it at your face, I doubt you would be yelling at his parents about how bad their child's morality is (assuming you understood he was trying to feed you). The consequences that the child wanted were morally right, but he is unable to know the correct action to bring about the consequences he wants.

Also I do not think that actors are as bad as you think, the ones who make the news are the nut job cases. Summer may be better than average, but I do not believe that actors have worst morality on average than the rest of the human population.

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Also you have to understand characters and how they work in a story from a work which is an ability Summer shows when she interprets a character with her acting( maybe thats even harder what she does). Also I've seen examples of an actor( although stage actor) becoming a literature teacher and the other way around( through the teacher did amateur acting only)


I would buy that if Summer wrote for some shows in addition to acting, but it would be a mistake to assume actors would understand stories better because they play characters in a story. The actors do not see the whole story unfold from their point of view they only play their own part. That is not to say I think she would be unable to be a Literature teacher, I am only saying that her acting will not be as much help as you think. (also literature is a completely different medium, much harder to decipher)

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And if everything fails then she could still be a teacher in an elementary school. If she can write and read( I see no evidence that she can't unless her mother is the one who reads the scripts for her) then she'll do just fine I think.

And don't forget that she is very diligent in everything she does, that'd double her chances to learn a profession even if its somewhat above her.


I am not saying that she does not have the capability of doing another profession. I am just saying it would is a bit generous to assume she can do some of the more technical professions (engineering, doctor, physics professor). It is entirely possible she could, there is just no reason to think so from the information we have.

You have to remember that she works hard at acting because she has a passion for it, that drive may not be there if she was in a profession she did not like - one of the reasons I am heavily considering switching majors, despite being one and a half years into a degree.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Saturday, 03 Dec 2011, 06:26
 
BlaziusDate: Monday, 05 Dec 2011, 23:24 | Message # 60
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I guarantee you I was not being biased in my pickings, my reference pool may have been biased, but my three choices have been not only very high in integrity, but very high in their contribution to humanity. I would add more to the list of scientist actors and such, but I know far more about the personal lives of politicians, because as I have said I read many US President biographies - often multiple volumes. All three put their bodies on the line multiple times in war, and yet that is the very least of their contributions.

Going in to reading on George Washington I was thinking he would be highly overrated, but he deserves his place as Father of the United States, and is one of the few (very few) (very very very few) people in history not to take the option of ultimate power over the goverment, even when he could easily have done so. Not only did he not take it for himself, but he made sure that there was not a coup for someone else to take power by pure sway of his personality and acclaim with his soldiers alone. Lafayette deserves a shout out for being one of the few others in history not to accept a crown (he was actually directly asked too). Of note is that Washington was a father figure to Lafayette.

I mention this just so you know that my choices were just off the top of my head and I wanted to make sure the choices were quality persons, not just people that I have been told are - thus the reason I chose two Presidents. I have read enough about them to know they were remarkable people in many facets, including sacrifice (one of the important factors in my mind). Admittedly I am biased to upholders of western style democracy, but that is not such a bad thing now is it.

Not all politicians are bastions of humanity after all, I only mentioned 2 out of many tens of thousands (The United States has many politicians compared to other Western Democracies, federalism system and all). Notice all my examples were not JUST politicians, Theodore Roosevelt was a writer/author, hunter, cattle rancher, Assistant Secretary of the Navy, Volunteer Soldier, etc. etc., this man was insane. The only pure politician of good moral fiber and contributions all the way through that comes to mind is John Adams - do not confuse with his scum bag cousin Samuel Adams. The thing about a political job is that it is considered a public service, so while many are attracted by acclaim and power, there are those who are attracted to serve their country and humanity - George Washington, Theodore Roosevelt, and John Adams being good examples. Their laundry list of accomplishments is unmatched by any other democratic politicians, not just within the political arena. """


I haven't studied those 3 politicians to that extent so I can't really argue with you in this. My general experience with political figures is that you must be very careful what you believe because opinion and even facts about them may change on the whim of the current political agenda. And remember "History is written by the victors."

The irony is that this sentence was sometimes attributed to Churchil too who is the number one example how somebody can get heroised to extreme levels without any veryfiable clue if he was indeed that fantastic or not. Remember the insane ammount of Churchil quotes at least half of which were NEVER said by Churchil.

Of course there are exceptions from the rule and they are wellcome in the pantheon but we must be extremely careful with them because politicians of every age tend to be the most "evasive" elements of history.



Also its hard to discern what is good and what isn't. The good they do are only confined to the majority of a given countrys population. These interest are almost always collide with the interests of another country which also consists of human beings so you can't say that it was benefitical to the all of humanity. The Independence war was benefitical to the American people but I don't think Great Britain was all that happy about that. And thats actually not the roughest thing happened in history. Inventing a new medicine is good for anybody because less people will die of ilness in BOTH countries.

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There is a reason War Heroes, Country Founders, Scientists and other such things are looked up to. Not because everyone else does not offer anything to society, but because without these guys there would be no chance for the artists to create art in the first place. There is a quote by John Adams that applies here --"


I said "in fields of life" which contains science, art, warfare and everything like that. I don't want to say that leaders and war heroes are not important, I'm just saying that others are equally important too.

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"The science of government it is my duty to study, more than all other sciences; the arts of legislation and administration and negotiation ought to take the place of, indeed exclude, in a manner, all other arts. I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain.


The problem with this quotation is that it neglects some important things. First we must mention that in a war there are several major factors: The technological state of the countries military, the economcal output of the country which determines how many weapons it can produce, manpower,landscape, and political aspects like how many friends the country got. The first falls down to the scientists to design the weapons( so they are super important), the second falls down to economists, only the fift to politicians.

So our heroes couldn't even win a war without at least technological superiority. Of course there are tales about how somebody used his tactical genious and superhuman charisma to win a whole war. Thats BS, its either technological superiority or greater numbers. There are exceptions but thats very rare. Of course if there is a competent general then that could make a small difference but not much generally. But even if a general wins with his tactical genius Napoleon still needed scientists to invent gun powder first.

Another thing. The "liberty" and any kind of ideologies in which names the politicians govern were invented by various thinkers, and poets who were usually discontent with the current system. Without their thinking there would have been no advancement. Without them Washington would be a barbarian king beating up his subordinates and wives with a big club. Even the political systems were invented by these thinkers( what you describe as a thinker is a bit fuzzy through, I'd call them borderline philosophers and scientists) . The american system, which they call a democratic, free system is based on works like the French philosopher Montesquieu. He was actually very popular in America especially during the Independence wars.

So we have three main groups: scientists, politicians, and philosophers( and poets and artist played a great role too to induce thinking) who helped the world move forward. So focusing on one group chiefly as ultimate saviors of humanity is stupid. If anything politicians are the less important of the three. So its a misconception that politicians make the study of sciences and philosophy and art possible. In fact sciences, philosophy and art are the reasons the politicians even exists not the other way around.

Moreover the current model of states are originating from the Roman Republic era. The Romans are the basis of the entire Western culture, many things we use they used as well, they had almost the same advanced society. Our laws are based on Roman laws to the point that its mandatory for lawyers to study Roman laws even today. Also the language. Just about half of the words I'm writing down in this moment are Latin in origin( same would be true to French, Italian, Spanish etc.)

So counting contributions to humanity I'd say most Roman emperor, philosopher, scientist would automatically beat any politician of the more recent eras. Does that make Washington's efforts less worthy?

If you say no then I'd say Washington's efforts aren't making Summers contributions less either.

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That is not a very good attribution, intelligence only makes clear the consequences of the actions, morality is about which consequences you are going for, not the actions themselves. If a mentally disabled child was trying to hand you food because you were hungry by throwing it at your face, I doubt you would be yelling at his parents about how bad their child's morality is (assuming you understood he was trying to feed you). The consequences that the child wanted were morally right, but he is unable to know the correct action to bring about the consequences he wants.


Ok then call her, I don't know, more civilized perhaps? I still hold it that civilization has something to do with intelligence through.


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Also I do not think that actors are as bad as you think, the ones who make the news are the nut job cases. Summer may be better than average, but I do not believe that actors have worst morality on average than the rest of the human population.


Why? Its perfectly understandable. If you tell somebody that he/she is so superb and godly then he/she has a chance to think that he/she is entitled to do anything. Adults aren't immune to get spoiled in a way, its just takes more than to spoil a child.


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I am not saying that she does not have the capability of doing another profession. I am just saying it would is a bit generous to assume she can do some of the more technical professions (engineering, doctor, physics professor). It is entirely possible she could, there is just no reason to think so from the information we have.


There is absolutely no way to know thats sure and its a moot point because she is an actor now and its unlikely she'll ever change more so because art is everything she ever wanted to do in her life.

And why must I automatically assume the worst regarding her abilities? I'm not saying that its 100% sure that she could become even a mediocre engineer, that'd be foolish obviously but I'm just saying that I have a feeling that she'd do fine even in more conventional jobs which'd require intelligence of some sort.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
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