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Misc. News on Pilots and Series
BlaziusDate: Tuesday, 22 Nov 2011, 23:01 | Message # 46
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The hate has nothing to do with not being interested in River sexually. He has called her cute so he does find her attractive.


I don't remember when he called her cute, which episode is it in?

Not that it matters too much. If you meet a six years old girl you can find her cute too, but you wouldn't necessarily sleep with her,right?

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he problem is that River is dangerous in many, many ways. Jayne is a simple thug, he does not want complications for the sake of doing the right thing (at least not until the character development that we only get glimpses of, and comes full force in the Movie). He hated both the Tams because they are a liability to his health directly and indirectly, and they also make his job harder to accomplish. If he can get money and get rid of them of course he will take it.


Then besides that Jayne probably finds her too young and infantile and crazy, the danger factor is probably too much for him too. He probably fears more from River than anybody else from the crew. River just stinks on so many levels for Jayne probably that I can't see them together unless River is hitting on him very aggressively and relentlessly which I can't see happening. Moreover despite the little subtexts River still seemed a very asexual character in the show and even I who saw Summer as Cameron saw River with sexual neutrality. I doubt that any of the crew thought otherwise.

So to answer to @Nomad79 too the only way I see too for River to ever fall in love would be if she meets with somebody who has been trough the same as her. Through I'd prefer the boy to be in the condition in which River was found, and River would need to guide him through the rough periods thus forming a strong bond with each other. I know I said earlier that romantic love shouldn't be the thing which saves River, so River would be more like Simon to him first, thus strengthening Rivers character further( she is now the helper not the one who needs help). It'd be a bond not romantic in origin first. Then after some time when both are getting better then the bonding could turn into a romance too.

Quote (Nomad79)
Yeah I think in the show Mal did have feelings for Inara, clearly evident, even though at times he was wrong in alot of things he thought of her.


They wanted to pull Han Solo + Leia with Mal and Inara( not surprising considering Mal was inspired by Han mostly). In TNH and ESB Han and Leia pissed each other off constantly too and they were arguing a lot and such then in ESB it became apparent that they love each other and after ROTJ they got married. Of course Whedon had more time for the two characters to do that more slowly and subtly.

Quote (FordStaff)
I do not think so. River was hysterical every-time there were Reavers nearby, the only exception was when she started killing them all, and the way her fighting is represented it seems to be a trance where she is not really herself.


Its an interpretation of the "Simon wounded" scene and the subsequent Reaver massacring that the shock and fear from the potential loss of Simon strengthened River and woke her up from her panic and she consciously subdued her greatest fear in order to help. It was the moment when she triumphed over her madness and now fearlessly using her abilities fought and killed the Reavers.

Also when she was pushed against the wall and the Reaver spear penetrated the wall you can see the panic on her face instead of a blank Cameron face which may indicate that she was conscious during the fight and moments later she jumped back into the fight despite her staggering experience. This is unlike the scene earlier when she was indeed in a trance. There she pulled a blank face all along the fight even when she was hit.


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I am confident that River would show her skills more and more towards the end of the series run had it continued. It is important to note that story wise, River could never be in complete control or sane. She would be a Mary Sue that would swallow everything around her. For the show to be any good she would need to remain less than sane to at least some extent regardless of whether it would make sense or not.


She'd need to have insane moments every now and then however she must be developed into a far more healthy and confident person than she was before to the point when the viewer can leave the show after the final end credits with satisfaction that River will live happily after the show and the alliance did not succeed in taking the chance of happiness from her forever . Its a kind of justice that is needed to be done to the character otherwise the audience will feel disappointed.

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If the show became a mess of politics and military battles it may lose sight of that. A straight up Rebels vs. Alliance would be a bad way to go, then it is not the characters that are important. The movie may have had the crew fighting the Alliance, but it was in a realistic way - they were not trying to topple the alliance completely. And the characters development and issues were still very important in the movie, they have the same problems as in the show.


It can be important still but without triumphing somehow over the big bad villain it will be disappointing. I don't think Firefly is the kind of show which'd allow bad endings. And leaving the crew always robbing banks and doing the dirty work of the underworld will get repetitive after a while. More so because the known universe is relatively small with human colonies as the only destination. You don't have nearly as much toys to play with as the softer sci-fis.

You'd need to spice things up after those inevitable bad seasons which are found in every long running show imaginable. Moreover Firefly already had very good battle scenes. And you wouldn't need to seriously restructure the show. Lets say there is a second war and Serenity works behind the lines, stealing information, new weapons and sabotaging instead of just stealing. You'd get the same stories but also an overarching agenda behind the stories.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
FordStaffDate: Wednesday, 23 Nov 2011, 00:20 | Message # 47
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I don't remember when he called her cute, which episode is it in?

Not that it matters too much. If you meet a six years old girl you can find her cute too, but you wouldn't necessarily sleep with her,right?


I forget which episode, my best guess would be the 2-hour pilot episode.

A 6 year old has not reached adolescence, 17 old girls are generally already sexually mature (I hope I am right here or that Biology class was useless) , so there is a large difference between those ages. It is still bordering on wrong age wise, but the main problem with River is her immaturity and mental state not the age. You made it sound as if Jayne was repulsed by River's appearance, I just wanted to point out this is not true. I agree with you that this comment is not meant to make us believe Jayne has an uncontrollable urge to get in River's pants or anything.

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Then besides that Jayne probably finds her too young and infantile and crazy, the danger factor is probably too much for him too. He probably fears more from River than anybody else from the crew. River just stinks on so many levels for Jayne probably that I can't see them together unless River is hitting on him very aggressively and relentlessly which I can't see happening


I am not sure where you get the idea that he finds River too young or infantile to have sex with. There is a difference between an actual romantic relationship and just having sex, and Jayne is not one I would think to have standards about who he has sex with. River is going to be a danger to Jayne as long as she is on the ship regardless of whether he accepted her sexual advances. I agree with you that it would be out of character in most circumstances for River to be hitting on Jayne agressively, but if we assume this is true, I see no reason Jayne would not accept.

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Moreover despite the little subtexts River still seemed a very asexual character in the show and even I who saw Summer as Cameron saw River with sexual neutrality. I doubt that any of the crew thought otherwise.


I completely agree that River was portrayed completely neutral sexually, and the crew would have no reason to disagree. Saying she was portrayed as asexual may be a bit too much assumption, it is possible within the frame of the movie and show, but it is not verified. Another quote of interest ,but I forget which episode, maybe even the movie. Anyways River said "Copper for a kiss" to Jayne or some crew member, so such things are not entirely out of River's mind. I forget the context of the quote, probably just craziness, but it certainly puts a dent in the asexual theory.

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So to answer to @Nomad79 too the only way I see too for River to ever fall in love would be if she meets with somebody who has been trough the same as her. Through I'd prefer the boy to be in the condition in which River was found, and River would need to guide him through the rough periods thus forming a strong bond with each other. I know I said earlier that romantic love shouldn't be the thing which saves River, so River would be more like Simon to him first, thus strengthening Rivers character further( she is now the helper not the one who needs help). It'd be a bond not romantic in origin first. Then after some time when both are getting better then the bonding could turn into a romance too.


I completely agree with this. The only problem is that this scenario seems very very contrived. One Fan fiction has River developing a relation ship with one of the people who worked on the experiments for the academy. It makes sense because when River came to finish him off for revenge, he was the only one who felt regret and did not view River as a weapon or tool, but as a person. This seems less contrived, but also just as convincing as having another experiment of the academy becoming River's love interest.

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Also when she was pushed against the wall and the Reaver spear penetrated the wall you can see the panic on her face instead of a blank Cameron face which may indicate that she was conscious during the fight and moments later she jumped back into the fight despite her staggering experience. This is unlike the scene earlier when she was indeed in a trance. There she pulled a blank face all along the fight even when she was hit.


My explanation is that in the bar she was not fighting Reavers. The Reavers are probably the single most maddening thing in the Firefly Universe for a mind reader (or anyone) to be around. In the bar her trance was unbroken, but her panic and emotion during the Reaver fight demonstrated that her trance was breaking from the terror. Once she starts fighting again she regains that trance. At the end of the fight she was still in the trance once the Alliance broke in, to the point of continuing the fight hopelessly.

-(side note)- I read forums online and it seems common for people to claim that River was about to ass whup the 30 Alliance Soldiers after the fight. This is insane, unless River also has the ability to manipulate mind directly (NEVER shown or suggested). Even if River had an actual projectile weapon she would be screwed. I should clarify that comments are claiming that she would win, I agree with the fact that she was getting ready to attack, just not that she had a chance.

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She'd need to have insane moments every now and then however she must be developed into a far more healthy and confident person than she was before to the point when the viewer can leave the show after the final end credits with satisfaction that River will live happily after the show and the alliance did not succeed in taking the chance of happiness from her forever . Its a kind of justice that is needed to be done to the character otherwise the audience will feel disappointed.

Of course, it should just not be unlimited, not only would it degrade the quality of the story, it would not make sense with season 1 of the series. River is one of the most overpowered characters in terms of Intelligence and skills, that is one of the main reasons she was insane, she had to be to mitigate these strengths enough to not overpower the rest of the characters out of their roles. A character like that would not work if they were normal.

You do not want one character who can fly better than the ace pilot, fix the ship blindfolded quicker than the genius mechanic, kill more efficiently than the big guy. At least not until she truly breaks out (arguably in Serenity this happens, but that is only because it was the probably the last of firefly, so a now or never situation). River is meant to become better, just not until at the very least 3/4ths through the story perhaps halfway would work too. River may be the most major character besides Mal, but the other characters need to remain relevant too.

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You'd need to spice things up after those inevitable bad seasons which are found in every long running show imaginable. Moreover Firefly already had very good battle scenes. And you wouldn't need to seriously restructure the show. Lets say there is a second war and Serenity works behind the lines, stealing information, new weapons and sabotaging instead of just stealing. You'd get the same stories but also an overarching agenda behind the stories.


But that pulls the rug out from under Mal's character development. The whole point is that Mal thought he was fighting for something worthwhile to see it smashed to pieces right before him. He lives in a world where his side has lost, there is no hope for resurgence, of note is that according to Word of God the perspective is suppose to be similar to the Rebels of the American Civil War.

In this new world purchasing Serenity was literally his way of trying to find serenity. The lyrics in the theme song "you can't take the sky from me" are very relevant. Captaining a space ship is a way to stay out of the influence of the Alliance, it is Mal's attempt to stay free, yet it is clear there is still something missing, empty. He claims to Simon that to keep on flying is enough, but the truth is that it is not. He has no cause to fight for anymore he has to find the fights himself, and if the Rebels re-surged it would take away this very important dynamic.

Mal during the episodes is always ends up in fights, his introduction in the original episode aired "Train Job" is him picking a fight. He needs something to fight for and in the end I think Mal was suppose to end up fighting for his crew, particularly River. The movie shows this, he finally finds something he will really fight for.

Mal's character arc is about Mal picking up the pieces in a world he does not want, and this is true of EVERY character to some extent. Firefly is literally about finding Serenity (not the ship). River needs to get past her experiences at the Academy, Inara needs to get past her mortal illness (this was going to be explored, implied in multiple episodes), Book needs to get past his past , Simon needs to get past his previous life. (Zoe, Wash, Kaylee, and Jayne are not so easy to pin down).

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It can be important still but without triumphing somehow over the big bad villain it will be disappointing. I don't think Firefly is the kind of show which'd allow bad endings. And leaving the crew always robbing banks and doing the dirty work of the underworld will get repetitive after a while. More so because the known universe is relatively small with human colonies as the only destination. You don't have nearly as much toys to play with as the softer sci-fis.


There should be strong over arching villains, and I am not suggesting that the Alliance could not remain an antagonist to the crew. But the conflict should remain unique to the crew, it should be their fight alone. The best way to do this without a second rebellion, is by continuing along with the academy, there are other subjects, there is blue sun corporation. There are plenty of enemies without turning into Rebels vs Evil Alliance. This would also add moral ambiguity by giving opportunities to show the beneficial aspects of the Alliance.

I do not think all out war belongs in the show except as the back-story, it is suppose to defy typical space operas and this is part of that. Everything accomplished is by the crew not an army, if they are to battle the alliance they need to do it themselves. Part of the story is how the crew is going to find its place in an Alliance controlled space. That is the driving force behind the Serenity crew forming at all. It is not about massive overthrow, only some nudging until the characters finally find their place, at least this is how I imagine it playing out if we had many more seasons. The movie is sort of like this, what they do may not have a huge change of the system, but they got the signal out.

My responses in this thread are getting pretty gorram long, at this rate I will be writing essays next page. biggrin


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Wednesday, 23 Nov 2011, 00:37
 
BlaziusDate: Wednesday, 23 Nov 2011, 01:34 | Message # 48
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I am not sure where you get the idea that he finds River too young or infantile to have sex with. There is a difference between an actual romantic relationship and just having sex, and Jayne is not one I would think to have standards about who he has sex with. River is going to be a danger to Jayne as long as she is on the ship regardless of whether he accepted her sexual advances. I agree with you that it would be out of character in most circumstances for River to be hitting on Jayne agressively, but if we assume this is true, I see no reason Jayne would not accept.


Ok I don't really know how to put this but I found River too childish and creepy for my thoughts to revolve around how attractive is she and how nice that'd be to have sex with her. I say this despite the fact that I find Summer herself very attractive in general. She just felt sexually neutral even when she brought up something related to sex because I mostly dismissed that as one of her childish, mischievous jokes.

Maybe I have too strong morality regarding this but if the crew saw River as I then I don't think even Jayne would be that pig to seek sexual contact with her else I'd be disappointed with him very much. I say again that the only scenario when I can see this happening would be if River was very aggressive and semi-raped Jayne in his quarters.

Quote (FordStaff)
Of course, it should just not be unlimited, not only would it degrade the quality of the story, it would not make sense with season 1 of the series. River is one of the most overpowered characters in terms of Intelligence and skills, that is one of the main reasons she was insane, she had to be to mitigate these strengths enough to not overpower the rest of the characters out of their roles. A character like that would not work if they were normal.

You do not want one character who can fly better than the ace pilot, fix the ship blindfolded quicker than the genius mechanic, kill more efficiently than the big guy. At least not until she truly breaks out (arguably in Serenity this happens, but that is only because it was the probably the last of firefly, so a now or never situation). River is meant to become better, just not until at the very least 3/4ths through the story perhaps halfway would work too. River may be the most major character besides Mal, but the other characters need to remain relevant too.


Thats a bit of a problem with River I think. She is vastly overpowered to this universe I think and a character as powerful as her will inevitably overpower the others I think. Look at the movie for example.

The ENTIRE crew played marines from an Alien movie with the Reavers as the Xenomorphs. They killed a lot but there were always more, there were casualties, even the war veteran Zoe. Then comes River who massacres ALL of them and there isn't even a scratch on her. In that moment the crew except Mal became pitifully pathetic compared to River, even Jayne with his big guns. There is no way to balance this out even if she is insane. Seriously River is on the level (even half mad) of a weaker Jedi but Jedi are from an overpowered universe and Firefly is a low-powered universe. River is too much even now. The reason why she doesn't fit well is also that the experiments themselves are too much for the hard sci-fi universe. There is no FTL but humans can make fully powered telepaths with superhuman fighting capabilities?

The only solution would be to give River enemies and missions which are more in her category e.g. leading a Rebellion against the Alliance, even a rebellion composing super human research subjects. But the problem is that then the crew may not be able to follow her.

So for this reason it may be that if somebody wants to make a series continuation then he should disregard Serenity entirely. However I don't know if fans would be happy about that either.

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My responses in this thread are getting pretty gorram long, at this rate I will be writing essays next page.


And its a bit hard to keep up. I have to read your post then think about a response then translate it to english properly, not easy! wacko

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There should be strong over arching villains, and I am not suggesting that the Alliance could not remain an antagonist to the crew. But the conflict should remain unique to the crew, it should be their fight alone. The best way to do this without a second rebellion, is by continuing along with the academy, there are other subjects, there is blue sun corporation. There are plenty of enemies without turning into Rebels vs Evil Alliance. This would also add moral ambiguity by giving opportunities to show the beneficial aspects of the Alliance.

I do not think all out war belongs in the show except as the back-story, it is suppose to defy typical space operas and this is part of that. Everything accomplished is by the crew not an army, if they are to battle the alliance they need to do it themselves. Part of the story is how the crew is going to find its place in an Alliance controlled space. That is the driving force behind the Serenity crew forming at all. It is not about massive overthrow, only some nudging until the characters finally find their place, at least this is how I imagine it playing out if we had many more seasons. The movie is sort of like this, what they do may not have a huge change of the system, but they got the signal out.

My responses in this thread are getting pretty gorram long, at this rate I will be writing essays next page.


I just can't see where the series would be going. You say that you don't want to make the situations too normal but then what will they do? Chasing the Blue Suns all the time and saving experiment victims? OK, but depending the length of the series that may get repetitive on the long run. Also when and how will the crew find that so called "Serenity"? How do you imagine the last season and the last episodes fr example?


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
BlaziusDate: Wednesday, 23 Nov 2011, 01:47 | Message # 49
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I read forums online and it seems common for people to claim that River was about to ass whup the 30 Alliance Soldiers after the fight. This is insane, unless River also has the ability to manipulate mind directly (NEVER shown or suggested). Even if River had an actual projectile weapon she would be screwed. I should clarify that comments are claiming that she would win, I agree with the fact that she was getting ready to attack, just not that she had a chance.


I doubt she'd be screwed that badly. People seem to forget that Reavers aren't Orcs! They had projectile weaponry, actually both Simon and Kaylee were SHOT during the fight. Considering this chances are that River almost ripped those troopers into shreds and the Operative unknowingly saved their lives by ordering them to back off.

Regarding the trance. Even if she only got out from trance for those moments she still showed considerable mental fortitude to be able to reactivate it. Through we don't know how this works really. Maybe in a near death situation she thought that she either reactivates it or dies?

Also she seemed to be able to do extraordinary feats without trance too. Remember when she crawled up on the ceiling when Simon rescued her or when she shot the three mercenary on Niskas space station.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!


Message edited by Blazius - Wednesday, 23 Nov 2011, 01:48
 
FordStaffDate: Wednesday, 23 Nov 2011, 02:53 | Message # 50
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Ok I don't really know how to put this but I found River too childish and creepy for my thoughts to revolve around how attractive is she and how nice that'd be to have sex with her.


I hope you do not think those are my thoughts on the matter, I was thinking along Jayne's moral code. I do not think Jayne obsesses or even considers having sex with River, but he is a pig and when an opportunity for sex is thrown in his lap, I would think he would find it hard to deny. Even honorable Mal could hold off Saffron for long, and that was a potential abusive situation had Saffron not been playing a persona.

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Maybe I have too strong morality regarding this but if the crew saw River as I then I don't think even Jayne would be that pig to seek sexual contact with her else I'd be disappointed with him very much. I say again that the only scenario when I can see this happening would be if River was very aggressive and semi-raped Jayne in his quarters.


This is confusing me very much. I never claimed Jayne would be seeking sexual contact with River, that would just not make sense. Half the crew would be smashing his face in and Book would condemn him to special hell for that, I doubt he would bring that on himself. He can be piggish all he wants without serious consequences (apparently, he seems to hold little back), so long as he does not go too far, and that would be the line. I was suggesting in the hypothetical situation that it would be River coming on to Jayne and it would need to be fairly insistent to work in my opinion. Jayne would not even believe it at first I am sure. (we are not even shippers why are we talking about these things lol biggrin , or are you tongue )

Your Morality should not affect how you view the probable actions of fictional characters unless they share that morality. I am right alongside your morality set for this situation.

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Then comes River who massacres ALL of them and there isn't even a scratch on her. In that moment the crew except Mal became pitifully pathetic compared to River, even Jayne with his big guns. There is no way to balance this out even if she is insane. Seriously River is on the level (even half mad) of a weaker Jedi but Jedi are from an overpowered universe and Firefly is a low-powered universe. River is too much even now.


She is far better than a weaker Jedi (if we discount direct force attacks), as far as I know Jedi's do not get PERFECT hand eye coordination with no practice and super intelligence. To be honest the problem is not her ass-kicking abilities, those are limited to certain situations, the problem is that her super intelligence, hyper hand eye coordination skills, and telepathic powers would allow her to do literally any job in the verse better than anyone, if it was not for some level of insanity or mental block.

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The reason why she doesn't fit well is also that the experiments themselves are too much for the hard sci-fi universe. There is no FTL but humans can make fully powered telepaths with superhuman fighting capabilities?


I think she still fits well despite being the only soft science fiction in the Firefly universe. The problem is whether she would continue fitting throughout the series if it had continued. There would need to be delicate balances, we want to see improvement, but at the same time she needs some problems or she will be too powerful. This is probably why they had her and Simon both imply that it is impossible for her to be completely normal, so that the overpowered aspects of her character could never tip over the balance, and yet still be employed when needed. Leaves the door open for improvement yet they could keep some limitations.

Her fighting abilities are not implied to be super human by the way, they may be implausible, but it is not as if she punched through titanium. Lets be honest if they did not add the light sci-fi aspect of telepathy the firefly universe would be a little too limited, having really hard science fiction is good for some aspects but not all.

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The only solution would be to give River enemies and missions which are more in her category e.g. leading a Rebellion against the Alliance, even a rebellion composing super human research subjects. But the problem is that then the crew may not be able to follow her.

Even if the story was just about River, I would not support this. Since it is an ensemble effort this is implausible, and there are other solutions to the problems of River's overpower factor. For example there were no other telepaths or telepathic resistant forces that River had to face. That alone would solve the problem of her over power factor. Had the series continued there is no way there would not be any more telepaths. These confrontations could also serve to highlight her intelligence, by making it the deciding factor in her victories rather than her kung-fu.

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So for this reason it may be that if somebody wants to make a series continuation then he should disregard Serenity entirely. However I don't know if fans would be happy about that either.


Joss already stated if there is continuation he would disregard Wash's and Book's death from Serenity. Likely if there is continuation, it will be with a modified version of Serenity as cannon, much like he modified the Buffy The Vampire Slayer movie cannon for the series. Many would be happy to see that Wash and Book will not be dead in the continuation so any whining will be drowned out by cheers of joy. They could just ignore it completely also, but I doubt that considering the major plot developments were merely what season 2 would have been anyways.

Also it is not as if they were completely final in the movie there were many things open for change and interpretation. River is shown to be better but how much better? The continuation could keep in line with the movie and still keep River in check reasonably well.

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I just can't see where the series would be going. You say that you don't want to make the situations too normal but then what will they do? Chasing the Blue Suns all the time and saving experiment victims? OK, but depending the length of the series that may get repetitive on the long run. Also when and how will the crew find that so called "Serenity"? How do you imagine the last season and the last episodes fr example?


I am not a show writer, it would take much thought to plan out multiple seasons of plot (I would not want it to go on too long there ought to be a plan perhaps 3-6 seasons at most). Even with an Alliance - Rebel War you have the same problem. Except with the Alliance - Rebel war scenario your ousting the entire feel of the show.

It is suppose to be the crew against the world, not the crew joining a faction fighting another faction. The crew is suppose to be their own faction and the show and movie both reflect this. There is no help for them, but what they make for themselves. Think about it the show has the crew antagonized by the Alliance, Crime Lords, Aristocrats, Old Friends, Reavers, Crazy Villagers, even each other. In the end it is a crap-sack verse and all they got is each other, joining a faction in a war effort would be detrimental to this feel, which is at the heart of the show.

I have no idea how each crew member will find their serenity, perhaps never. As Mal likes to say just keep flying and maybe that truly is enough sometimes.

In the end the common thread of the crew is that they are searching for a place in the verse where they belong, I think that place may in fact be Serenity the ship all along. The ship Serenity will bring serenity to its crew, but it will not be the ship, it is each other.

This is what I feel the direction would be throughout the series, and the end would drive it home. How? I do not know. The end of the Big Damn Movie, with the love speech about what it takes to fly is fairly close to this, but it would need something with all the crew involved for the true ending. All I know is that the crew will go through hell together, and some will not make it back. The ones who do will only make it due to each other.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Wednesday, 23 Nov 2011, 06:10
 
Nomad79Date: Wednesday, 23 Nov 2011, 18:38 | Message # 51
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So to answer to @Nomad79 too the only way I see too for River to ever fall in love would be if she meets with somebody who has been trough the same as her. Through I'd prefer the boy to be in the condition in which River was found, and River would need to guide him through the rough periods thus forming a strong bond with each other. I know I said earlier that romantic love shouldn't be the thing which saves River, so River would be more like Simon to him first, thus strengthening Rivers character further( she is now the helper not the one who needs help). It'd be a bond not romantic in origin first. Then after some time when both are getting better then the bonding could turn into a romance too.


I actually agree completely. it's better for the love interest to be a a normal type subject that they would find instead of a super soldier. I can see River taking her time to help the person through his ordeals of dealing with what happened to him. There was one fanfic where this happened but the subject was a super soldier whose character was based on a Kull Warrior type from Stargate SG1, just a guy that River knew before but his mind and memories of her where wiped. It was set five years after Serenity and they were already together, but the story of how they met was told through flashbacks and River was the one to save him. But I think he died though and River slowly began to regress to what she was before.

I think in a better story, drop the supersoldier idea, and go with like you mentioned; River gets to know the boy better and begins a close bond with him. Maybe Mal and the crew raid an Alliance warehouse or lab under control of renegades or mercs believing to be much needed supplies or things they can sale for credits. And they find the subject in cyrogenic suspension or being used by the mercs as thier ace in the hole anyway it would lead to River getting to know the boy and helping him through his ordeal and later after he's some what stable River begins to become more attached to him.

Just ideas.
 
BlaziusDate: Thursday, 24 Nov 2011, 01:17 | Message # 52
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This is confusing me very much. I never claimed Jayne would be seeking sexual contact with River, that would just not make sense. Half the crew would be smashing his face in and Book would condemn him to special hell for that, I doubt he would bring that on himself. He can be piggish all he wants without serious consequences (apparently, he seems to hold little back), so long as he does not go too far, and that would be the line. I was suggesting in the hypothetical situation that it would be River coming on to Jayne and it would need to be fairly insistent to work in my opinion. Jayne would not even believe it at first I am sure. (we are not even shippers why are we talking about these things lol , or are you )

Your Morality should not affect how you view the probable actions of fictional characters unless they share that morality. I am right alongside your morality set for this situation.


I'm just only trying to prove why Jayne wouldn't jump on River the moment she gives a tiny sign that she may be interested in such is because You suggested that Jayne would be the only candidate. Its not true in my opinion because Inara would agree to have sex with River just as "easily" as Jayne. Again she wouldn't jump on River the moment she gives a sign however I believe if River would be dead serious and very insistent then I see no reason for Inara not to accept. Maybe she'd refuse somebody else but not River. But it doesn't matter anyway because either option is very bad I think.

Quote (Nomad79)
I actually agree completely. it's better for the love interest to be a a normal type subject that they would find instead of a super soldier. I can see River taking her time to help the person through his ordeals of dealing with what happened to him. There was one fanfic where this happened but the subject was a super soldier whose character was based on a Kull Warrior type from Stargate SG1, just a guy that River knew before but his mind and memories of her where wiped. It was set five years after Serenity and they were already together, but the story of how they met was told through flashbacks and River was the one to save him. But I think he died though and River slowly began to regress to what she was before.

I think in a better story, drop the supersoldier idea, and go with like you mentioned; River gets to know the boy better and begins a close bond with him. Maybe Mal and the crew raid an Alliance warehouse or lab under control of renegades or mercs believing to be much needed supplies or things they can sale for credits. And they find the subject in cyrogenic suspension or being used by the mercs as thier ace in the hole anyway it would lead to River getting to know the boy and helping him through his ordeal and later after he's some what stable River begins to become more attached to him.


I think this is the best solution for a River romance. Not the Kull Warrior of course( lol, River falling in love with a Kull Warrior lol )but the subject found in cryo stasis. Thats how I imagined it too, the boy should be in a similar state as River, same childish characteristics and such. It should be like a child romance basically but still something far deeper than that. If done right it could be very moving.

Quote (FordStaff)
She is far better than a weaker Jedi (if we discount direct force attacks), as far as I know Jedi's do not get PERFECT hand eye coordination with no practice and super intelligence. To be honest the problem is not her ass-kicking abilities, those are limited to certain situations, the problem is that her super intelligence, hyper hand eye coordination skills, and telepathic powers would allow her to do literally any job in the verse better than anyone, if it was not for some level of insanity or mental block.


I thought mainly because of the Force, obviously she'd get killed fast by even an average Jedi using the Force. With melee capabilities she may be on par with the more powerful Jedi through most Jedi would be able to massacre the Reavers as she did only using swords probably.

On the other hand her mind reading abilities are very advanced even for a Jedi so its a bit unbalanced due to the dissimilarities of the universes.

Jedi don't need perfect hand eye coordination as the Force grants them substitute abilities like precognition, superhuman speed, maybe even perfect hand eye coordination. How do you think they can deflect incoming fire from all angles in the heat of battle using a think lightsaber?

Intelligence is a good point as thats not granted for a Jedi I think thats why there is such a huge gap between members like Revan and Atris.

Through thats not the point all, its not a vs. thread and the two universes don't translate that well into each other obviously. The important thing is that River is still near or even equals in power with denizens of a high-powered universe but she is in a low-powered universe. I still have doubts how developing a character and pulling the "mental illness" trick constantly could be handled well, it wouldn't be an easy task to say the least.

Quote (FordStaff)
Even if the story was just about River, I would not support this. Since it is an ensemble effort this is implausible, and there are other solutions to the problems of River's overpower factor. For example there were no other telepaths or telepathic resistant forces that River had to face. That alone would solve the problem of her over power factor. Had the series continued there is no way there would not be any more telepaths. These confrontations could also serve to highlight her intelligence, by making it the deciding factor in her victories rather than her kung-fu.


Maybe but then again there is the problem that only she could handle with it and the crew couldn't do a thing only watching the two fighting and they'd feel useless and far less competent than River just like in the movie. The crew would be simply outmatched. One solution would be to remove River somehow while we'd want the others to do something and the mutants of the week wouldn't be frequent but I think that'd feel too artificial.

Quote (FordStaff)
I am not a show writer, it would take much thought to plan out multiple seasons of plot (I would not want it to go on too long there ought to be a plan perhaps 3-6 seasons at most). Even with an Alliance - Rebel War you have the same problem. Except with the Alliance - Rebel war scenario your ousting the entire feel of the show.

It is suppose to be the crew against the world, not the crew joining a faction fighting another faction. The crew is suppose to be their own faction and the show and movie both reflect this. There is no help for them, but what they make for themselves. Think about it the show has the crew antagonized by the Alliance, Crime Lords, Aristocrats, Old Friends, Reavers, Crazy Villagers, even each other. In the end it is a crap-sack verse and all they got is each other, joining a faction in a war effort would be detrimental to this feel, which is at the heart of the show.

I have no idea how each crew member will find their serenity, perhaps never. As Mal likes to say just keep flying and maybe that truly is enough sometimes.

In the end the common thread of the crew is that they are searching for a place in the verse where they belong, I think that place may in fact be Serenity the ship all along. The ship Serenity will bring serenity to its crew, but it will not be the ship, it is each other.

This is what I feel the direction would be throughout the series, and the end would drive it home. How? I do not know. The end of the Big Damn Movie, with the love speech about what it takes to fly is fairly close to this, but it would need something with all the crew involved for the true ending. All I know is that the crew will go through hell together, and some will not make it back. The ones who do will only make it due to each other.


I'm not either. Also I agree that this'd require much planning and even then the whole thing wouldn't be as we originally planned anyway.


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Message edited by Blazius - Thursday, 24 Nov 2011, 01:19
 
KrelleKDate: Sunday, 27 Nov 2011, 17:49 | Message # 53
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well there is few fanfics that descripes how the browncoats or former alliance pro planets rise against the alliance due to something the crew releases all the secrets of the academy, after they got the secrets from a group of bluehands that tried to pick up a pair of young girls, one being the a younger cousin of Kaylee, and one that turns out to be the daughter of Wash due to a single night with a former girlfriend the night before he went to go to flight school, that he never was told about, and for quite a bit of the war the crew is outside of the waring factions until they are picked up by one of the flying city ships, that used to be an alliance ship, but has rebelled. the captain of the said ship happens to be the slightly young one that Mal saves from the Reaver in one of the first episodes.
 
chrisdvanneDate: Monday, 28 Nov 2011, 14:13 | Message # 54
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SyFy orders pilot for DC Comics superhero "Booster Gold", according to THR.

Booster Gold Superhero DC Comics

Fringe's and Warehouse 13's Andrew Kreisberg will write the pilot scipt and execute produce while No Ordinary Family's Greg Berlanti will produce and execute produce.

Quote (THR)
The story will center on Booster Gold, a washed-up athlete from the future who travels back to the present in hopes of becoming the greatest super hero of all time. Instead of chasing criminals, however, his main priority is chasing fame and money. But Booster Gold discovers that being a hero takes more than just a megawatt smile, and that the future doesn’t happen without first protecting the present.


Booster Gold is probably one of the lesser known DC superhero, i personnaly discovered him in one of the episodes of Smallville finale season. We don't know yet if it will be campy or have a serious character arc; i just hope Syfy won't do it for cheap like they did with Flash Gordon (which was supposed to be a space opera but was grounded on Earth most of the time, not to mention the so-so acting).


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chrisdvanneDate: Friday, 02 Dec 2011, 16:29 | Message # 55
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Fox unveiled via press release its mid-season schedule, including J.J. Abram's new mysteriouys drama Acatraz.

Alcatraz Promo on FOX

Alcatraz will premiere on Monday, January 16th at 8:00-10:00 pm with a two hour pilot (regular time spot will be 9:00 pm starting following week).

Quote
The mysterious drama stars Sarah Jones (“Sons Of Anarchy”), Jorge Garcia (“Lost”) and Sam Neill (“Jurassic Park”) as a unique team investigating the shocking reappearance of Alcatraz’s most notorious prisoners, 50 years after they vanished.


At this stage, we don't know what "the event" is : aliens, time portal,...

Complete list of FOX 2011-2012 mid-season premieres dates at tvbythenumbers.


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chrisdvanneDate: Wednesday, 14 Dec 2011, 20:41 | Message # 56
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I already reported that HBO was developping a new almost sci-fi show about " “a successful California construction subcontractor, his Asian American wife who is a university professor, and a robot as they straddle both sides of the Pacific with extended families on two continents.”

And now NBC has ordered a pilot that sounds similar to HBO's : Beautiful People,“is set in the near future in a society where humans co-exist with mechanical androids that look like people but are treated like second-class citizens.”

The question of what constitutes a human and the quest for a soul will be probably at the center of both shows.

Source : deadline


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BlaziusDate: Thursday, 15 Dec 2011, 01:55 | Message # 57
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The question of what constitutes a human and the quest for a soul will be probably at the center of both shows.


Its just me or this concept has really been done to death already? More robots with silly Pinocchio mindset.

I really loved that in TSCC no synthetic wanted to be human. They wanted to became sentient and/or independent lifeforms but in their own way not again following the overglorified human "superior" idiocy.

It was refreshing.

Maybe they want to do something like this too but I'd be surprised.



Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
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chrisdvanneDate: Thursday, 15 Dec 2011, 01:57 | Message # 58
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Yes it will probably be human-centric.
But who knows, maybe an enjoyable robotic character will come out of these show?


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BlaziusDate: Friday, 16 Dec 2011, 01:45 | Message # 59
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But who knows, maybe an enjoyable robotic character will come out of these show?


Only if they are willing to go to the local library and burrow some Asimov or similar classic sci-fi and learn how to make an enjoyable robot character at least. Josh and his team clearly did that for Cameron especially after Summer showed that she is dead serious about her intent to play a robot character.

The'll also need a decent actor at least. Notice that behind all memorable TV robot stood a decent actor. Cameron, Data, Bishop and so on.

The one about "a successful California construction subcontractor, his Asian American wife who is a university professor, and a robot as they straddle both sides of the Pacific with extended families on two continents.” is destined to fail IMO because everything will be drowned in family drama until human love and friendship makes Geppetto rise from his grave and using his magic he'll transform the robot into a real kid smile smile smile

The second one has potential actually but only if they get it right( not much chance for it to happen). But if they get it right then it can be pretty awesome actually.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
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chrisdvanneDate: Friday, 13 Jan 2012, 10:44 | Message # 60
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If one wants to learn more about "Beautiful People" on NBC, i recommand you read the excellent article from our friend Charlie Jane Anders at io9 : "Beautiful People is like Stepford Wives meets Blade Runner"
Quote
Thought-provoking science fiction is in short supply on network TV in the U.S. — so it's a hopeful sign that NBC has ordered a pilot for Beautiful People. In this near-future-set show, human-appearing robots live among us, as the perfect slaves. What could possibly go wrong?

Here's everything you need to know about NBC's dystopian Beautiful People. Spoilers ahead...


On the same topic, one can also watch the trailer of "Äkta människor", a swedish tv show about an abducted sex robot, set to premiere on Sunday 22 January, 2012 on SVT1 and SVT Play

Here's the synopsis for this disturbing looking new show:
Quote
Real Humans
What happens when robots become so human that they can barely be distinguished from real people? When they can even be our lovers? Real Humans takes place in a parallel world to our own, in which people's lives have been completely transformed by the new generation of robots, the Hubots.
Created by Lars Lundström and directed by Harald Hamrell och Levan Akin, Real Humans is produced by SVT and Matador Films in collaboration with Danmarks Radio and YLE, with funding from Nordisk Film och TV Fond and Nordvisionsfonden.
SVT and Matador Films have also struck a deal with the Shine Group in the UK for format rights and international distribution of the series.
They're used as servants, heavy laborers, company for the lonely and even sex partners. But Hubots also create conflicts - within families, in places of work and among those concerned about public safety. Their intelligence exceeds our own. Are there any jobs left that are not best carried out by a robot? Can they develop feelings of their own? Can a Hubot harm a human being?
Leo and Niska lead a group of rogue Hubots who are fighting for their freedom. But Leo and Niska don't agree on methods. During an escape, Leo's beloved Mimi disappears and Leo leaves the group to find her. At the same time, the Engman family decides to buy a used Hubot, against the mother Inger's wishes - at first. But the Hubot addition to the family, Anita, soon wins her over. A lawyer, Inger soon begins to represent clients who support equal rights for Hubots. Warehouse foreman Roger's life has begun coming apart at the seams. His wife has left him for her Hubot and all of his human coworkers have been replaced by Hubots as well. Roger joins a resistance movement. Behind the everyday facade, a whole new world is coming to life.
Real Humans premieres on Sunday 22 January on SVT1 and SVT Play

Source : Real Humans - Äkta människor



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