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Summer-Glau.com Forum » Filmography » Other movies/shows » Misc. News on Pilots and Series (All about your favourite tv shows)
Misc. News on Pilots and Series
Date: Wednesday, 2011 Nov 16, 15:04 GMT | Message # 1

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NBC orders sci-fi pilot.

Maybe not the space opera some are waiting for but it's science fiction at least and it echoes some of the questions asked in TSCC.

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NBC on Monday ordered the futuristic pilot Beautiful People, described as a "what if?" drama set 10 minutes into the future.

From executive producer Michael McDonald, the show focuses on families of mechanical people that exist to serve the human population — except, the robots begin to awaken.

McDonald, who appeared on Mad TV, was a consulting producer on Scrubs and directed episodes of Cougar Town. ABC Studios and Universal TV are producing what's touted as "low-tech, high drama."

Source : TV guide


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Date: Wednesday, 2011 Nov 16, 17:32 GMT | Message # 2

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I am not certain how to feel about this. If it is successful it can perhaps revitalize science fiction at least a little bit. For some true results in science fiction we will need far more genre infused with high drama such as in Battle Star Galactica. Highly dramatic, but much of the drama could be drawn back to the genre, and from the sounds of it this new show will not be high in genre.

Robots have been done to death, and I find it difficult to believe the execution of robot rebellion for umpteenth time will be executed well ( "awakening" could just mean self awareness, but whatever it is). I do not understand the obsession to always have robots as some important aspect of the plot, it is far more realistic when the robots are tools as they are in real life. Isaac Asimov showed how robots can be involved with the plot while still being utilized as tools and tools only.

I must admit that I am biased against antagonistic robots in fiction mainly, because they are always done wrong. For example in Battle Star Galactica the cylons have models designed with the only purpose of killing humans. If you design a robots specifically with one in goal in mind it will be far more efficient than any human at the task, so realistically one cylon fighter should be able to take out any viper pilot one on one easily. Yet for some reason the cylon fighters and ground troops suck at literally the only purpose of their design. This is one of the reason the Terminator series always bothered me also. If a Terminator has a gun and gets within shooting range of their target, that target should be dead, no hesitation, no mis-aiming.


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Date: Wednesday, 2011 Nov 16, 18:02 GMT | Message # 3

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As it says : ""low-tech, high drama." This is why i haven't great expectations regarding that serie. Battlestar Galactica had its share of high profile sci-fi moments but its sequel Caprica had very little for example; and i guess this one will have even less.

As for the Terminator mis-aiming, this is a tv meme, just like the fact the hero inevitably faces the villain alone on the finale scene, even if a hundred policemen had been brought to the scene.


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Date: Wednesday, 2011 Nov 16, 18:19 GMT | Message # 4

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As for the Terminator mis-aiming, this is a tv meme, just like the fact the hero inevitably faces the villain alone on the finale scene, even if a hundred policemen had been brought to the scene.


I understand that. But its a different story when its Stormtroopers missing every shot versus robots who are designed with the only purpose of killing human beings. Robots do not have to be designed for as large a multitude of functions as biological beings, and the reason they are useful is because they are far more efficient than humans at the functions that they can do.


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Date: Wednesday, 2011 Nov 16, 20:39 GMT | Message # 5

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Robots have been done to death, and I find it difficult to believe the execution of robot rebellion for umpteenth time will be executed well ( "awakening" could just mean self awareness, but whatever it is). I do not understand the obsession to always have robots as some important aspect of the plot, it is far more realistic when the robots are tools as they are in real life. Isaac Asimov showed how robots can be involved with the plot while still being utilized as tools and tools only.


I agree that robots were done to death after the classics like Asimov started it and the portrayal got twisted too.

Although I think the Terminator franchise managed to conceive pretty enjoyable robots( even without Cameron). Comparing to the stupidity to make robots have emotions and whatnot and make them humans and bring up the Pinocchio effect, Terminators were always mechanical and robotlike and had singular goals whether kill or protect a human.

Good Terminators were even similar tools as Asimov robots, they were actually bound by a version of the Three Laws but only considering John.

Adding to that they were quite lovable too and that there is Cameron who is one of the most perfect robot character ever conceived then I think Terminator is the best robot franchise at least nowadays.

Quote (FordStaff)
I am not certain how to feel about this. If it is successful it can perhaps revitalize science fiction at least a little bit. For some true results in science fiction we will need far more genre infused with high drama such as in Battle Star Galactica. Highly dramatic, but much of the drama could be drawn back to the genre, and from the sounds of it this new show will not be high in genre.


Agreed, its nice to have a semi-sci-fi out there again so we at least know that they are still trying, however this won't be enough.

And the premise does not sound stellar to say the least.

Oh, and have I heard the word "family"? Sounds like cyber emo-kid and daddy issues are on the way dry

Quote (FordStaff)
I understand that. But its a different story when its Stormtroopers missing every shot versus robots who are designed with the only purpose of killing human beings. Robots do not have to be designed for as large a multitude of functions as biological beings, and the reason they are useful is because they are far more efficient than humans at the functions that they can do.


Bio-engineered super soldiers bred to kill things shouldn't miss that much either tongue tongue tongue

I agree through that they should definitely cut down on overusing the Stormtrooper-effect, it gets boring and ridiculous now. They should try to write situations where its not so blatant at least or situations in which the hero can win without it.

Quote (michelangelo)
As it says : ""low-tech, high drama." This is why i haven't great expectations regarding that serie. Battlestar Galactica had its share of high profile sci-fi moments but its sequel Caprica had very little for example; and i guess this one will have even less.


Low-tech in science fiction = bad idea IMO


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
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Date: Wednesday, 2011 Nov 16, 22:17 GMT | Message # 6

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I agree that robots were done to death after the classics like Asimov started it and the portrayal got twisted too.


Asimov was actually the original deconstruct-er of the robot subsection of science fiction, so when science fiction has robot rebellions, it is actually reverting back to the original version of robots. He was not the very first to write sympathetic robots who did not try to betray humanity, but he certainly was responsible for establishing robots as tools and not ticking time bombs. The way Asimov saw it robots would not be built if they had the capabilities of destroying their creators, there would be fail safes just like there is in most potentially dangerous constructions of humanity.

Quote

Although I think the Terminator franchise managed to conceive pretty enjoyable robots( even without Cameron). Comparing to the stupidity to make robots have emotions and whatnot and make them humans and bring up the Pinocchio effect, Terminators were always mechanical and robotlike and had singular goals whether kill or protect a human.

Good Terminators were even similar tools as Asimov robots, they were actually bound by a version of the Three Laws but only considering John.

Adding to that they were quite lovable too and that there is Cameron who is one of the most perfect robot character ever conceived then I think Terminator is the best robot franchise at least nowadays.


I was not against the Terminators in terms of their mental functioning. Their portrayal is very much like Isaac Asimov's robots with rules and pure logic. The thing I did not like in the Terminator movies / series was the fact that the Terminators would often get into situations where their target should be dead. The very instant that a terminator is within firing distance of a target, that target should have its brain splattered on the nearest object, yet that is often not what happens.

I also just do not like the whole Human vs Robot war, if such a thing really happens it would be a massive curb-stomp battle. That is assuming these robots are like most robot civilizations in fiction and can replicate and make new models ex. Skynet - Geth - Cylons . For example the human body can only experience so many G-forces limiting the capabilities of any vehicle with humans aboard. Robots would not be so restricted capable of maneuvers impossible for a human to survive. That is just one example of Robot superiority, which would be endless. Really the only chance for us Humans in the Robot - Human war is for the humans to utilize robots against the robots ( John Connor agrees , although he would need more than a few models to actually win the war)

Quote
Bio-engineered super soldiers bred to kill things shouldn't miss that much either tongue tongue tongue

I agree through that they should definitely cut down on overusing the Stormtrooper-effect, it gets boring and ridiculous now. They should try to write situations where its not so blatant at least or situations in which the hero can win without it.


Even soldiers can miss quite a bit in the heat of battle, so at least it is understandable with non robotic characters. Robots on the other hand should hit dead center every time so long as no equipment malfunctions. The best solution is as you say, not to right characters into situations where the enemy needs to miss thousands of shots.

Quote
Agreed, its nice to have a semi-sci-fi out there again so we at least know that they are still trying, however this won't be enough.

And the premise does not sound stellar to say the least.

Oh, and have I heard the word "family"? Sounds like cyber emo-kid and daddy issues are on the way dry


Yeah family should never go with science fiction. It is ironic that Science Fiction as a genre is considered juvenile, yet every time they try to infuse a science fiction show with emo kids it fails. Not a single very successful and critically acclaimed SF I know of has teenagers trying to sow family drama into the plot. The ironic part is that when there is family drama in SF it is often very mature, and far beyond just an angsty teenager not getting attention. (Just finished season 3 of BSG, so I have Lee Adama and his father in mind) .

Quote

Low-tech in science fiction = bad idea IMO


It limits the usage of the appeal inherent in the SF genre, while still being placed in the Science Fiction Ghetto. I wonder who would even want to do such a thing? If your going to be ostracized, might as well go all the way. Alternatively though I could see how lower tech earth based science fiction, can perhaps lessen the stigma attached to science fiction.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.
 
 
Date: Wednesday, 2011 Nov 16, 22:47 GMT | Message # 7

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It is ironic that Science Fiction as a genre is considered juvenile, yet every time they try to infuse a science fiction show with emo kids it fails.

Speaking about that, i'm gonna watch the last episode of Terra Nova.


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Date: Thursday, 2011 Nov 17, 01:26 GMT | Message # 8

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Asimov was actually the original deconstruct-er of the robot subsection of science fiction, so when science fiction has robot rebellions, it is actually reverting back to the original version of robots. He was not the very first to write sympathetic robots who did not try to betray humanity, but he certainly was responsible for establishing robots as tools and not ticking time bombs. The way Asimov saw it robots would not be built if they had the capabilities of destroying their creators, there would be fail safes just like there is in most potentially dangerous constructions of humanity.


Actually the good obeying robots are annoying me more than the cruel robots. The Asimov version is still better however than what evolved from it. The twisted versions always suffer from Pinocchio effect and that they have a magic emotion chip which makes them have feelings and even make mistakes and abandon logic and then there is robot love both robot with robot then robot with human.

The robots are superior as you said to humans in every way, why would they want to become like them, or love them?

In Terminator there are at least robots who figured that out and do what is the most logical thing: eradicate the meatbags. Of course then you'd say that why I love Cameron? But even if she was bound to John she was a pretty grey morality character and she was the first good looking female robot who wasn't good but senselessly killed whenever she could. She also had this insidious thing in her with which she could fool the humans to believe she is actually good then came the shock when she did something horrible.

Added to that her mysterious agenda it may still be the case that she served only herself in reality( or most likely the free Terminators) so she wasn't even bound to John, thats why I don't like Jameron and I find the theory that she killed John appealing.

Thats what made Cameron brilliant. You never knew surely how to interpret her character.

Quote (FordStaff)
I also just do not like the whole Human vs Robot war, if such a thing really happens it would be a massive curb-stomp battle. That is assuming these robots are like most robot civilizations in fiction and can replicate and make new models ex. Skynet - Geth - Cylons . For example the human body can only experience so many G-forces limiting the capabilities of any vehicle with humans aboard. Robots would not be so restricted capable of maneuvers impossible for a human to survive. That is just one example of Robot superiority, which would be endless. Really the only chance for us Humans in the Robot - Human war is for the humans to utilize robots against the robots ( John Connor agrees , although he would need more than a few models to actually win the war)


Thats my problem with cruel robots too. They should win the war they are fighting. Although we must note that I don't think Skynet lose in the future from which Cameron came back and the Geth wiped the floor with the Quarrians. Or the Reapers with the Protheans for that matter.

The problem with the overusage of the Stormtrooper effect is not only the problem with the robots I think. Seriously do you think that the Rebel Alliance really had the chance to defeat the Empire? Stargate Sg-1 and Atlantis only featured enemies plagued by the effect( the Goa'uld defeated by the humans despite having far superior technology ), and the defeat of the Ori( literally gods) happened by a huge convenient plot device too. They only won because the heroes are always protected by a plot device.

Writers should definitely watch out what they write so they can avoid plot devices. They usually happen when the clever writer writes him/herself into a corner. Babylon 5 was quite devoid of plot devices on the other hand because the writers got it right( at least it wasn't that apparent if there was a few).

Quote (FordStaff)
It limits the usage of the appeal inherent in the SF genre, while still being placed in the Science Fiction Ghetto. I wonder who would even want to do such a thing? If your going to be ostracized, might as well go all the way. Alternatively though I could see how lower tech earth based science fiction, can perhaps lessen the stigma attached to science fiction.


Its stupid to do that because then it isn't Sci-fi anymore, it actually has more similarities with the comic book, superhero genre which is not popular nowadays.


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Date: Thursday, 2011 Nov 17, 03:00 GMT | Message # 9

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The problem with the overusage of the Stormtrooper effect is not only the problem with the robots I think. Seriously do you think that the Rebel Alliance really had the chance to defeat the Empire? Stargate Sg-1 and Atlantis only featured enemies plagued by the effect( the Goa'uld defeated by the humans despite having far superior technology ), and the defeat of the Ori( literally gods) happened by a huge convenient plot device too. They only won because the heroes are always protected by a plot device.

Writers should definitely watch out what they write so they can avoid plot devices. They usually happen when the clever writer writes him/herself into a corner. Babylon 5 was quite devoid of plot devices on the other hand because the writers got it right( at least it wasn't that apparent if there was a few)


Well we know from reallity that Rebels can overthrow what they think are a wrongfull leadership, but they need to be clever, and good at using what they have at hand, patient and very cautios.

I do not know how long the Rebel Alliance was at work till they ended up destroying the second deathstar, I think I read somewhere that Senator Bail Organa of Alderaan - and adoptive father of Leia Organa was one of the founders. in the books descriping some of the youth of Han Solo it also tells of how they Rebels are recruiting people and smugling weapons to hide away. but I do not think they used any plot device here, beside perhaps the force smile against the first DS, but the second they got the plans from spies of theres, that it turns out they where deceived. but won anyway.

StarGate, yeah that one is trickyer, in the first movie(Ra is killed somewhat by stubborness of humans, luck, and helpfullness(the Abydossian people)creates a diversion, but how do they beat most of the other Goáuld - somewhat sneakyness, help from people they meet, and dreams of freedom in some peole(Téalc and Bratac), but yeah the soldiers of the System lords can be some pretty bad shots smile well the Ori the only one that needed a plot device cannot remember if it also included the Replicators
 
 
Date: Thursday, 2011 Nov 17, 03:54 GMT | Message # 10

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I do not know how long the Rebel Alliance was at work till they ended up destroying the second deathstar, I think I read somewhere that Senator Bail Organa of Alderaan - and adoptive father of Leia Organa was one of the founders. in the books descriping some of the youth of Han Solo it also tells of how they Rebels are recruiting people and smugling weapons to hide away. but I do not think they used any plot device here, beside perhaps the force against the first DS, but the second they got the plans from spies of theres, that it turns out they where deceived. but won anyway.


We know that Bail Organa founded it with Garm Bel Iblis and Mon Mothma( the white robed woman from ROTJ who partly explained the assault plan of the DSII to the Rebels). But if you want to know more then play with the Force Unleashed game and choose the good ending smile .

The plot device was actually Palpatines "plan" I think because it was obvious even from the movie dialogues that if the Imperials used they full force then the Alliance would have been crushed like a little bug. However Palpatine held back his ENTIRE fleet of Star Destroyers and only fought with fighters and the ISDs could only defend their positions, holding the line while waiting for the Alliance to swarm them and take them out one by one. Add to this the Teddy bear swarm and yeah, that was nice smile

Quote (KrelleK)
StarGate, yeah that one is trickyer, in the first movie(Ra is killed somewhat by stubborness of humans, luck, and helpfullness(the Abydossian people)creates a diversion, but how do they beat most of the other Goáuld - somewhat sneakyness, help from people they meet, and dreams of freedom in some peole(Téalc and Bratac), but yeah the soldiers of the System lords can be some pretty bad shots well the Ori the only one that needed a plot device cannot remember if it also included the Replicators


Apophis who attacked Earth in the first season with two ships could easily wipe out the entire Earth with a simple planetary bombardment while the nuclear missiles did no harm to him because of the shields.

Then Carter came with a magic techno blabla so they went into the ship via the Chappa'ai ( the Stargate biggrin ) and Oneil then massacred everybody onboard and soon they blew up the ship using only granades and C4. There were actually 2 ships BTW but magically the second was destroyed because of a magic shockwave caused by the first ship. It was a bit anti-climatic for me.

The Ori was even better. The Ori are literally gods wielding unimaginable power. How did they defeat them? With a bomb. A fucking bomb. They blew them up ! Just that simply! Talking about anti-climatic endings. dry dry dry


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Date: Thursday, 2011 Nov 17, 04:29 GMT | Message # 11

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The problem with the overusage of the Stormtrooper effect is not only the problem with the robots I think. Seriously do you think that the Rebel Alliance really had the chance to defeat the Empire? Stargate Sg-1 and Atlantis only featured enemies plagued by the effect( the Goa'uld defeated by the humans despite having far superior technology ), and the defeat of the Ori( literally gods) happened by a huge convenient plot device too. They only won because the heroes are always protected by a plot device.


This was a feature of Firefly that I liked. The Independents who were inferior actually lose, and that is just the end of that. At least I thought it was made utterly clear they would not "rise again".

Quote
Actually the good obeying robots are annoying me more than the cruel robots. The Asimov version is still better however than what evolved from it. The twisted versions always suffer from Pinocchio effect and that they have a magic emotion chip which makes them have feelings and even make mistakes and abandon logic and then there is robot love both robot with robot then robot with human.


I see what you mean. I agree robots who are purely logical in nature are the way to go, and that could encompass cruelty or benevolence. For the Terminators their goals are the extermination of the human race and for Three Law robots they just merely do what they are told by humans while doing no harm to humans. Both use pure logic for their decisions.

Quote
Added to that her mysterious agenda it may still be the case that she served only herself in reality( or most likely the free Terminators) so she wasn't even bound to John, thats why I don't like Jameron and I find the theory that she killed John appealing.

Thats what made Cameron brilliant. You never knew surely how to interpret her character.


That was a huge appeal to a character that could otherwise be uninteresting. Purely logical robots are hard to make work, but they can really pay off in the end.

Quote
Thats my problem with cruel robots too. They should win the war they are fighting. Although we must note that I don't think Skynet lose in the future from which Cameron came back and the Geth wiped the floor with the Quarrians. Or the Reapers with the Protheans for that matter.


The Reapers are not a fair example since they have had millions upon millions upon millions of years to advance and practice, so of course they should eradicate meat bags. In fact they wipe all sentience from the galaxy every once in the while just for the lolz (not really, it is for reproduction). The protheans were only their most recent victims. Also the Reapers are not completely logical they have several insane notions, including a god complex.

The human population in the Terminator universe should not survive nearly as long as they do after the apocalypse, unless there is something else going on. Even if we assume a resistance could survive for a prolonged time, they still have no chance of winning the war without Deus Ex Machina.

The Geth I think are the best written and most interesting race of robots out of any fiction. In terms of their power not only do they make their creator into migrants with little effort, just 10% of their population is enough to form a formidable fleet capable of fighting the entire citadel defense fleet. The only problem with the geth is their flashlight heads. They make up for it with an interesting mix of hind mind and individual consciousness, that I have not seen in any other robots (it reminds me of a biological hive mind in Asimov's books though). It is refreshing to get an escape from the individual consciousness of most robots - especially the ones who have a central single consciousness that merely uses the rest of the robots as puppets.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Thursday, 2011 Nov 17, 05:06

 
 
Date: Thursday, 2011 Nov 17, 05:45 GMT | Message # 12

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Then Carter came with a magic techno blabla so they went into the ship via the Chappa'ai ( the Stargate ) and Oneil then massacred everybody onboard and soon they blew up the ship using only granades and C4. There were actually 2 ships BTW but magically the second was destroyed because of a magic shockwave caused by the first ship. It was a bit anti-climatic for me


well the wave as talked about, well now i do not know what it is that these run on, it is that strange stuff Naquadar, but and as mentioned in the first movie when Ra tell Daniel he intends to send the bomb back along with a load of that stuff saying it will empower the explosion a thousand fold or something similar, but is not possible that the engine from one ship causing explosive shokwave strong enough to take out the other ship. that a mere basic nuclear warheads which I suppose was that they firing on them could not do(they had not yet thought of using naquadar boosted bombs yet had they?). I do not know if the engine would damaged enough by throwing some grenades, or did they take a glider and flew to the other ship? to take out the shield landing sneak in and do the damage to the shield there, and using the gate, well did i am not sure


Message edited by KrelleK - Thursday, 2011 Nov 17, 05:48

 
 
Date: Thursday, 2011 Nov 17, 05:52 GMT | Message # 13

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the bomb you talk about that gave to the ori, was that not the thing made Merlin? that destroyed the ori in the other galaxy except one - a young spoiled child with a goddess complex biggrin

by the way have any of you seen the ark of truth?(spoiled child with a goddess complex-line from that movie biggrin )


Message edited by KrelleK - Thursday, 2011 Nov 17, 05:53

 
 
Date: Thursday, 2011 Nov 17, 06:51 GMT | Message # 14

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by the way have any of you seen the ark of truth?(spoiled child with a goddess complex-line from that movie )


Yes, and I developed a small fan crush on Morena because of it( I thought she was a true god by any definition biggrin ). Then I gazed into the Ark of Truth and I suddenly awakened that its Summer who is a true god by any definition and those who hate her will all burn in the fires of eternal damnation. biggrin :D biggrin

I still haven't figured out how could Joss made Inara so horrible with Morena through.

Althrough it doesn't matter because he helped the real god to emerge.

Hallowed are the Glau!!!

Quote (KrelleK)
the bomb you talk about that gave to the ori, was that not the thing made Merlin? that destroyed the ori in the other galaxy except one - a young spoiled child with a goddess complex


I know it was a very sophisticated bomb made by an Ancient Merlin to be a magic bomb which is the exact thing the heroes need to win.

Still pretty boring and anti-climatic to me dry <_< dry



I think we'd need a spoiler policy BTW.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!


Message edited by Blazius - Thursday, 2011 Nov 17, 06:53

 
 
Date: Thursday, 2011 Nov 17, 07:28 GMT | Message # 15

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The Reapers are not a fair example since they have had millions upon millions upon millions of years to advance and practice, so of course they should eradicate meat bags. In fact they wipe all sentience from the galaxy every once in the while just for the lolz (not really, it is for reproduction). The protheans were only their most recent victims. Also the Reapers are not completely logical they have several insane notions, including a god complex.


Ok, thats fair, the Reapers may not fall into the standard robot category. Although they demonstrate nicely how much the machines can surpass the organics if they are given time to develop.

Quote (FordStaff)
The human population in the Terminator universe should not survive nearly as long as they do after the apocalypse, unless there is something else going on. Even if we assume a resistance could survive for a prolonged time, they still have no chance of winning the war without Deus Ex Machina.


Agreed. I have never even understand what could one meatbag do to save the other pathetic meatbags against Skynet. They've never explained it rationally why John is even that important. Maybe has something to do with preserving the timeline.

Quote (FordStaff)
The Geth I think are the best written and most interesting race of robots out of any fiction. In terms of their power not only do they make their creator into migrants with little effort, just 10% of their population is enough to form a formidable fleet capable of fighting the entire citadel defense fleet. The only problem with the geth is their flashlight heads. They make up for it with an interesting mix of hind mind and individual consciousness, that I have not seen in any other robots (it reminds me of a biological hive mind in Asimov's books though). It is refreshing to get an escape from the individual consciousness of most robots - especially the ones who have a central single consciousness that merely uses the rest of the robots as puppets.


Pretty much as you described. The Geth are super brilliantly conceived.

And speaking with Legion, learning more about them was one of the best moments in any games.

Their fighting capabilities are also incredible I agree. Actually I think they are the most powerful faction surpassed only by the Reapers hands down.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
 
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