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Summer-Glau.com Forum » Filmography » Other movies/shows » Angel Episode - Waiting in the Wings (Waiting in the Wings talk, bring tissues, might need them)
Angel Episode - Waiting in the Wings
KrelleKDate: Tuesday, 15 Nov 2011, 02:47 | Message # 1
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I don´t dance, I Echo cry

sad and kinda bittersweet perhaps, I mean she got freed, but dissapears into the afterlife, I had kinda hoped she would be able to get a second chance at life, and perhaps join Angel and Co. just like Wini(Fred) Burckle did after they saved her from Pylea cry

anything to add to this thread o tears cry smile
 
FordStaffDate: Tuesday, 15 Nov 2011, 03:41 | Message # 2
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I was staying up all night to watch it very early in the mourning today, cause I knew if I went to sleep I wouldn't be able to get up. I had an hour to go and then I fell to sleep and missed it cry . I have been checking the Angel played in the mourning for that one episode everyday and I miss my chance.

Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.
 
KrelleKDate: Tuesday, 15 Nov 2011, 04:43 | Message # 3
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I am not sure but maybe it can be found on youtube, maybe not the best quality, but maybe it is there.

you do not have the DVD-box set? I have all of 5, had a b-day and christmas where I got them I think it was, and I am just missing 3 or 4 of the buffy´s cannot remember which season just now

but have you heard of the story in this episode?(it is a filler, but I had got a commentary with joss, and i do believe it got quite popular among Angel fans)
 
FordStaffDate: Tuesday, 15 Nov 2011, 05:31 | Message # 4
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I have not watched Buffy or Angel, vampires and the supernatural is a put off for me personally (of course I thought the same thing about western and science fiction aspects being mixed in a certain series biggrin ). I always watch a show before I buy the box set, and being in college I can not afford it anyways. The only DVD's I even have are Community Season 1 and Firefly Season 1, although I plan to add to the collection if I can ever get my hands on some discretionary spending cash.

I do not know the story of "Waiting in the Wings" I just know that it was Summer's first acting gig (or very close to first). I had already sat through Mammoth, and if I sat through that just because it had Summer then I may as well watch Summer in some good material. Plus Firefly is my favorite show and her gig in "Waiting in the Wings" is what got the attention of Joss Whedon enough to cast her as an inexperienced actor into a critically important role of his new series. Her role on "Waiting in the Wings" while small was very important to the trajectory of her career, I would even go so far to say most important.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Tuesday, 15 Nov 2011, 05:46
 
KrelleKDate: Tuesday, 15 Nov 2011, 06:16 | Message # 5
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I have not watched Buffy or Angel, vampires and the supernatural is a put off for me personally (of course I thought the same thing about western and science fiction aspects being mixed in a certain series ). I always watch a show before I buy the box set, and being in college I can not afford it anyways. The only DVD's I even have are Community Season 1 and Firefly Season 1, although I plan to add to the collection if I can ever get my hands on some discretionary spending cash.

I do not know the story of "Waiting in the Wings" I just know that it was Summer's first acting gig (or very close to first). I had already sat through Mammoth, and if I sat through that just because it had Summer then I may as well watch Summer in some good material. Plus Firefly is my favorite show and her gig in "Waiting in the Wings" is what got the attention of Joss Whedon enough to cast her as an inexperienced actor into a critically important role of his new series. It is a critical role even if small.


well a little fast one, so you know who/What Angel is, well he turned up in first season of Buffy as mysterious seemingly slightly older young man, cannot remember how it is revealed but he is Vampire, an Buffy being a slayer should be killing him, but Angel is different, he has a soul(cursed by Gypsies for drinking one of there daughters) after about a century and a half or so of doing terrible things it weighted heavilly on his soul, later on he apparently was led in the direction of helping Buffy by someone, after a years of helping, falling in love with Buffy, loosing his soul again for a little while(by sleeping with Buffy) getting the soul back sent to a hell dimension, coming back from said dimension, and appearing at Buffy Prom night(just to dance) he goes to LA, and meeting some friends from Sunnydale(the city of Buffy). after 2 and half year doing a buch of stuff. he and his friends decide to take a day/night off from battling the darkness, and intend to go to a rock consert, but Angel(played by the guy from Bones btw.) goes to pick up the tickets he finds out a very famous ballet troup is to paly in LA - it is the Ballet called Giselle if you have heard of it.

he decides to buy the ballet tickets instead, because as he says this troup is good, and after some grumbling they goes to see it. one falls a sleep, while the other pay rapt attention to this experience, but angel is the one that pays most attention of all, as he reveals during the break which they first missunderstand, when he says he had seen it before, they think he refers to what he already told him, but he clears it up quickly by saying it is the same dancers as then he saw it before. a century or so ago, they wonders if they are vamps but he believe he would be able to smell it, then they decide to check it out, while most of them end up fighting some masked men, Angel ends up by the side of the scene where he sees some of dancers disappear then leaving the stage. and a certain little Prima Ballerina waiting for her time dance, she looks sad, then he tries to talk to her, she is a little confused, saying he is new, and some talks ensues, where she tells him that it is not only the same ballet, but the same performance running as he had seen, and probably before that too, she had been cursed by the owner(a wizard) to dance for him for eternity, her and the whole troup becuase she planed to run of with one of the young male dancers - he did it out Jealousy.

angel then ask her to dance something wierd to break his concentration for some reason. where after he breaks a medailon of the wizard and the little PrimaBallerina and the others dissapear, here it was that i would have liked if she been able to live on somehow and join the group, and get second chance of life biggrin but sadly that was not to be cry
 
FordStaffDate: Tuesday, 15 Nov 2011, 06:25 | Message # 6
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angel then ask her to dance something wierd to break his concentration for some reason. where after he breaks a medailon of the wizard and the little PrimaBallerina and the others dissapear, here it was that i would have liked if she been able to live on somehow and join the group, and get second chance of life


That would ruin the impact, happy endings are not always the most powerful, sometimes the audience needs a shot to the gut.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Tuesday, 15 Nov 2011, 06:26
 
KrelleKDate: Tuesday, 15 Nov 2011, 08:30 | Message # 7
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That would ruin the impact, happy endings are not always the most powerful, sometimes the audience needs a shot to the gut.


there can be something about that, but some of this bad endings can be a bit to bad I think,, maybe not the one in waiting in the wings, but one like how TtSCC see that ended in bad - non happy ending right, am I not in that one smile
 
FordStaffDate: Tuesday, 15 Nov 2011, 08:45 | Message # 8
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there can be something about that, but some of this bad endings can be a bit to bad I think,, maybe not the one in waiting in the wings, but one like how TtSCC see that ended in bad - non happy ending right, am I not in that one


I agree things can go to far sometimes. It is probably almost certain that had Firefly continued as a series instead of being rapped up in the movie Joss would have wrung the characters through even more hell and possibly have even ended the series with some sort of downer ending (as opposed to the bitter sweet ending in the movie). That would almost be more painful than having the show end so early on. Joss Whedon seems to take delight in torturing characters that everyone loves, and can take it a little far.

T:TSCC did not even have an ending so to speak. The show did end and it was certainly not happy in atmosphere (understatement), but since the show had almost no closure it is hard to say where things would have gone. Admittedly even a bitter-sweet ending would require extraordinary circumstances given the situation, but it the possibility is certainly there.

There is a huge difference between ending an entire show on an entirely sad note and having sad moments along the way towards its end. "Waiting in the Wings" from the sound of it is fairly self contained.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Tuesday, 15 Nov 2011, 09:05
 
KrelleKDate: Tuesday, 15 Nov 2011, 12:05 | Message # 9
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There is a huge difference between ending an entire show on an entirely sad note and having sad moments along the way towards its end. "Waiting in the Wings" from the sound of it is fairly self contained.


you are right that waiting in the wings is selfcontained.

have you seen stargate the series? if you have and liked it, and perhaps once played the old game terror from the deep? i suggest you try reading the stories by Hotpoint on the: twisting the hellmouth site, there is also a greath buffy/angel crossover, but it would probably not make much sense to you if you have not seen the majority of both series.

but on bluesunroom there is also another firefly series by Hotpoint starting with one called death and glory. he started this story before the BDM movie where made and so no Miranda, and Wash an Book still alive and well.

there is also another series by one calling himself screwthealliance, starting with Kaylee´s Lament - a greath series actually succeeds in binding the series and the BDM together by bridgin the gap between the two parts
 
BlaziusDate: Tuesday, 15 Nov 2011, 21:25 | Message # 10
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I agree things can go to far sometimes. It is probably almost certain that had Firefly continued as a series instead of being rapped up in the movie Joss would have wrung the characters through even more hell and possibly have even ended the series with some sort of downer ending (as opposed to the bitter sweet ending in the movie). That would almost be more painful than having the show end so early on. Joss Whedon seems to take delight in torturing characters that everyone loves, and can take it a little far.


Tragic end can be dramatic and very touching and cool if done right and a straight happy ending can be the most boring thing in any story. However
there are cases when you shouldn't do a tragic ending. Its usually when your story and characters are good enough to be dramatic cool and satisfying with a happy ending too. If the characters are good enough then the audience usually loves them and want them to succeed.

You always have to give the audience what they want otherwise they won't be satisfied and your plan will backfire. Tragic ending usually is only a tool when your characters are bad or average and the audience hates them or don't care for them that much. Then a death can spike up interest. But if you make brilliant characters and/ or they are played by a superb actor then you can't kill them or make them fail( like Bennett).

Problem is that Joss is decent at creating good memorable characters and pick up great actors for them(Summer) so his strategy to kill said characters is misguided I think. He won't satisfy the audience by not giving them what they want.

Quote (KrelleK)
there can be something about that, but some of this bad endings can be a bit to bad I think,, maybe not the one in waiting in the wings, but one like how TtSCC see that ended in bad - non happy ending right, am I not in that one


TSCC's ending was extremely sad and not in a good way. Through its true that it wasn't even a true ending. I'm pretty confident that Cameron would most likely return right in the beginning of the 3rd season. It was more like the ending of the 1st season I think to keep us worried what will happen.

Remember Stargate loved to use a similar cliffhanger season ending structure too.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
ChrisDate: Wednesday, 16 Nov 2011, 01:19 | Message # 11
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TSCC's ending was extremely sad and not in a good way. Through its true that it wasn't even a true ending. I'm pretty confident that Cameron would most likely return right in the beginning of the 3rd season. It was more like the ending of the 1st season I think to keep us worried what will happen.


Popular theory in the TSCC's fan fics is that Allison Young in the future is actually Cameron as John gets a chip and sends it back through time in a new body for Cameron she then travels through time normally replacing Allison before John arrives so that she is there to protect him as to how she gets around the dogs is open to many varied explanations but no one knows its Cameron so she behaves like Allison secretly protecting John while John openly falls in love with her.
 
BlaziusDate: Wednesday, 16 Nov 2011, 01:51 | Message # 12
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Popular theory in the TSCC's fan fics is that Allison Young in the future is actually Cameron as John gets a chip and sends it back through time in a new body for Cameron she then travels through time normally replacing Allison before John arrives so that she is there to protect him as to how she gets around the dogs is open to many varied explanations but no one knows its Cameron so she behaves like Allison secretly protecting John while John openly falls in love with her.


Lol! And the Cameron killed John idea is far fetched smile ?

Either way its obvious to me that they intended to bring Cameron back early in the next season. Why throw a character away especially if the actress is playing an another character anyway? And Cameron was fairly popular I guess so they'd risk losing viewers, right?


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
FordStaffDate: Wednesday, 16 Nov 2011, 01:58 | Message # 13
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have you seen stargate the series? if you have and liked it, and perhaps once played the old game terror from the deep?


I do not like earth based Science Fiction or even worse fantasy, so Stargate and Angel and Buffy are all not my thing. I would probably like them fine if I gave them a chance, but I have limited time so I am starting with other things first like Babylon 5.

Quote
You always have to give the audience what they want otherwise they won't be satisfied and your plan will backfire. Tragic ending usually is only a tool when your characters are bad or average and the audience hates them or don't care for them that much. Then a death can spike up interest. But if you make brilliant characters and/ or they are played by a superb actor then you can't kill them or make them fail( like Bennett).

Problem is that Joss is decent at creating good memorable characters and pick up great actors for them(Summer) so his strategy to kill said characters is misguided I think. He won't satisfy the audience by not giving them what they want.


There is a difference between killing a few characters and making the entire existence of the cast a failure. I am not mad that Wash or Book was killed in the movie, if there was no price to pay for the success of the crew it would make the story seem far more trivial (of interesting note is that Wash is an author avatar for Joss Whedon, so Wash's death can be kind of symbolic, Wash got the crew to their destiny and he was no longer needed).

I think if your going to make the audience watch as you wring your beloved characters through hell and back, there is a duty for some pay off. That is not to say everyone has to hook up and make babies and live happily ever after, just that there should be some pay off in the end. The pay off could even only come after the deaths of the entire cast, but if it is not there then I do not see the point. This is mainly with shows that are heavily character based, otherwise I would find it fine to be so cynical to prove a point.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.
 
BlaziusDate: Wednesday, 16 Nov 2011, 02:29 | Message # 14
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There is a difference between killing a few characters and making the entire existence of the cast a failure. I am not mad that Wash or Book was killed in the movie, if there was no price to pay for the success of the crew it would make the story seem far more trivial (of interesting note is that Wash is an author avatar for Joss Whedon, so Wash's death can be kind of symbolic, Wash got the crew to their destiny and he was no longer needed).

I think if your going to make the audience watch as you wring your beloved characters through hell and back, there is a duty for some pay off. That is not to say everyone has to hook up and make babies and live happily ever after, just that there should be some pay off in the end. The pay off could even only come after the deaths of the entire cast, but if it is not there then I do not see the point. This is mainly with shows that are heavily character based, otherwise I would find it fine to be so cynical to prove a point.


I'm just saying that it does not always pay off if you kill the most beloved character. Especially if you are a fan of that particular character then it leaves a bad taste in your mouth if the series ends or if a cheaper replacement comes then it can even put you off and you stop watching it.

Like if they killed Cameron for example in season 1. And there are other examples too when somebody was missing and it diminished the quality of the show, some characters are just way too important I think. There are aces who are just destined to live . Agreed that its very rare such ace to be found.

Making the characters death and sacrifice pointless in the whole show is just idiotic I agree and writers shouldn't resort to it ( unless there is an unexpected circumstance which calls for it I guess)


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
FordStaffDate: Wednesday, 16 Nov 2011, 02:56 | Message # 15
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I'm just saying that it does not always pay off if you kill the most beloved character. Especially if you are a fan of that particular character then it leaves a bad taste in your mouth if the series ends or if a cheaper replacement comes then it can even put you off and you stop watching it.

Loved characters should not be invincible either (in genres where people should be dieing that is) . If done right killing characters can be very powerful, so that is not a capability that should be shelved just to satisfy fans. The audience is suppose to feel certain moods and vibes, and if a show never kills any beloved or good characters it may be impossible to get that feel. For example are we really to expect that the Operative and Reavers are such badass mother fuckers if they can not even get one of the main cast killed?

Quote
Making the characters death and sacrifice pointless in the whole show is just idiotic I agree and writers shouldn't resort to it ( unless there is an unexpected circumstance which calls for it I guess)


Not even their deaths or sacrifice, if we are going to follow around characters week after week there needs to be a purpose and closure to their personal and global arcs. Anything can be done right, but just making all of it pointless in the end is something that would be very hard to pull off (I can not even think of an example that is good).


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.
 
Summer-Glau.com Forum » Filmography » Other movies/shows » Angel Episode - Waiting in the Wings (Waiting in the Wings talk, bring tissues, might need them)
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