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How to win an Oscar and other Hollywood patterns.
BlaziusDate: Monday, 11 Jul 2011, 21:11 | Message # 16
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My apologies for everybody who I offended with my words and thanks Devo for correcting me.

BTW I would really like to see what a feminist says about this whole matter, it could be helpful.

Quote (michelangelo)
As you said, the actress/actors receiving an Oscar play a role model in the society and sometimes this is not the society i dream of.


Thats very important! Media controls everything nowadays and these people are big players in it.
They influence everybody especially the young but not exclusively. Therefore they should be really careful what they are doing even when playing a role! I dare to say that if we are going to build a healtier society it would be really important to make entertainers like Summer Glau big players too.

Quote (Devo)
People also need to keep the actors and their roles separate. If Summer is to grow as an actor she may take roles that are the exact opposite of her personally. Druggy, thief, murderer, crook, blackmailer... whatever. These are just parts, and playing a character of questionable morals has nothing to do with an actor personally. I would hate to see her stick to bubble gum network schlock like The Cape just because she gets to be heroic.


I suspect that to some degree Summer tends to indentify with a role more than she should. Yet there is still hope because Deadly Honeymoon for example proves that she is willing to play more "dirtier" roles too.

Quote
Again, there is no offense to women, just underline a pattern, caused by directors and studios mostly; the actress comes don't initiate the trend they're the "actors" of the trend.


Another good point! Actors don't have that kind of freedom people would think. They can still refuse to play certain roles through.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!


Message edited by Blazius - Monday, 11 Jul 2011, 21:14
 
chrisdvanne_Date: Tuesday, 12 Jul 2011, 16:46 | Message # 17
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For those who are interested, a columnist made an article last year when "Black Swan" was released : she pointed that ballet, though full of grace and beauty, is often associated to horror or frightened themes in movies.

Of course the supernatural elements of Angel's episode with Summer Glau is quoted in this article.



Source : Darren Aronofsky’s Black Swan, the Horror and Beauty of Ballet


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BlaziusDate: Wednesday, 13 Jul 2011, 00:54 | Message # 18
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For those who don't like philosophy I would like to add a more factual point of view.

As you might know I'm a very rabid SW fan too and therefore I saw every SW movie multiple times even the mediocre prequel trilogy.

Now it happens to be that Natalie Portman, star of Black Swan played a major character in all three prequel trilogy movies.
At first glance you would say that that would be a dream role for Summer because its scifi and pretty high-profile too.

However the truth is that George Lucas has a strange habit.From character dialogues and descriptions the lead female roles are supposed to be strong however the action keeps to contradict these words in every possible way.

The Portman character keeps getting into troubles, she is a true damsel in distress until the heroic Jedi(male) characters rescuing her. In the second movie things got worse. Her wardrobe changed to ridiciously revealing clothes, moreover her dialogues degraded with the introduction of the young Vader romance to the standard "We can't be together, we have a mission" and later to the "I'm all yours my husband, you are a real hero and my only purpose is to be your supporting wife" type of dialoge(Just watch Revenge of the Sith and you will know what I'm talking about).

In one word her only purpose in the film was to be the mother of Luke and Leia so Lucas could explain how they born to be the heroes of the original trilogy.

In fact Lucas could very well pick a random good looking woman from the street, pay her a bunch of money to say the few meaningless lines and look pretty in the sexy clothes.

Of course the character had little impact on the movie(despite her huge part of the story) and utterly failed to summon any real emotion or emotional connection with the viewer.

The reason why I wrote all this stuff is to demonstrate that there is a strong contrast between a popular character and a good character. Natalie Portman became really famous with these SW movies however her character was shallow and didn't matter at all in the movie while reinforcing the ancient idea that "Females are not good for fightin', they are only good to be wives" . But a lot of people saw Portmans face and that is that only matters if somebody wants to be famous. I don't blame Portman for the character, she couldn't even show her skills in this role! On the other hand we all know that the Summer type of characters are the total opposites and require a lot of skill to do them right however because they aren't in a high-profile franchise they aren't very popular.

While its enough for Portman to earn a lot of money and fame with a shallow, possibly unchallenging and not very female friendly roles, Summer does this whole thing for challenge and to be able to show her extraordinary skills, while she likes to play roles where "it feels good to be a woman" to paraphrase Summer heself . Its very unlikely that she will ever be satisfied with a Portman style role, and therefore she will likely choose a "low-profile" but artistically more rewarding role.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
chrisdvanne_Date: Wednesday, 13 Jul 2011, 01:00 | Message # 19
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Quote (Blazius)
BTW I would really like to see what a feminist says about this whole matter, it could be helpful.


So as to extend the conversation we had on this thread, i shall mention here a page released at The Hollywood Reporter; in this article Mila Kunis, the actress who shared a hot lesbian scene with Natalie Portman in "Black Swan, bemoan the fact that good looking actresses are not taken seriously by Hollywood.
Ironically, THR reproduced a very suggestive picture of Mila Kunis, as you can see ( i uploaded only a thumbnail on purpose; click on it if you're over 13).

I will not reproduce the article here, but the comments of the readers, who i find very instructive :


Terry Richardson/GQ

taisha (not verified) | Tue, 2011-07-12 11:40
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Yes..."Let me tell you about sexism in Hollywood....as I lay here with my legs spread".
Brilliant.


Vannie (not verified) | Tue, 2011-07-12 14:00
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Truth! I was just thinking about the Irony between the picture and the comment.


An (not verified) | Tue, 2011-07-12 15:51
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Ditto. Clearly a perfect and ironic photo selection by THR.


The Voice of Reason (not verified) | Tue, 2011-07-12 11:41
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Newsflash, Mila: If you want want people to only think of you as being "attractive," stop doing photo shoots in your underwear. I mean, honestly: you're griping about being thought of as sexy lust in an article that features a picture of you in PANTIES and HEELS.


Interested in Her Mind (not verified) | Tue, 2011-07-12 12:32
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I think Mila Kundis is a very skilled and dedicated actr--WHOA, IS THAT HER COOCH?


comedienne (not verified) | Tue, 2011-07-12 12:42
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Um, perhaps not posing in your underpants with your body splayed out on the floor might be a good first step to being taken a little more seriously? At least the Maxim model contingent are actually seen by the industry. The rest of us though, however talented, are utterly invisible. Be happy that you are not completely ignored.


Brett N (not verified) | Tue, 2011-07-12 12:58
Quote
Who isn't tired of hearing Mila Kunis and Jessica Alba complain about the difficulties of being hot? If Alba and Kunis didn't have thriving side careers of posing in heels and panties they wouldn't be in movies at all.

But Kunis does have a point: it is utter insanity that Jonah Hill and Seth Rogan and Jason Segal have thriving careers as leading comedic men in studio films. A female version of Jonah Hill will never ever ever be cast as the lead in studio comedies. Doesn't matter how funny she is. The double-standard is enraging and the blame can be spread around -- including to the audience whose ticket-buying patterns feed the beast.


Senor French Tickler (not verified) | Tue, 2011-07-12 13:27
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Jason Segal is certainly nowhere near as disgusting as Jonah Hill and Seth Rogan. And as for those two, blame Judd Apatow. Their time is almost up. Rogan bombed his balls off with his last few movies and Hill's probably got about five minutes to live.

Segal is a talented dude who's writing helped put Mila on the map. WTF has she written? She has the versatility of Jennifer Anniston, and thus far has only every played herself.

And by posing in her panties, she plays herself again HEYOOOOOOOOOOO


Anonymo (not verified) | Tue, 2011-07-12 15:56
Quote
No doubt it's a problem. But, when actresses pay lip service to it while endlessly (and photoshop) posing in their underwear, it's absurd. Change the game. It's not going to change while actresses keep submitting to it.


Robert (not verified) | Tue, 2011-07-12 15:00
Quote
Mila may be beautiful, but she's not funny. In fact, she's not a good actress period. Yes, there are gorgeous women out there who are also funny and talented, you, my dear, are NOT one of them.


Source : Mila Kunis on Sexism in Hollywood, Looking Up to Tina Fey, Lucille Ball at THR


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chrisdvanne_Date: Wednesday, 13 Jul 2011, 01:04 | Message # 20
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@ Blazius : to make short, Lucas is not Whedon biggrin

I shall answer tomorrow because my eyes are closing.


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Message edited by michelangelo - Wednesday, 13 Jul 2011, 01:05
 
BlaziusDate: Wednesday, 13 Jul 2011, 01:13 | Message # 21
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Quote (michelangelo)
Blazius : to make short, Lucas is not Whedon


Well said!
Quote (michelangelo)
I shall answer tomorrow because my eyes are closing.


Okay. I'm looking forward to your answer tomorrow. Sleep well!


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!


Message edited by Blazius - Wednesday, 13 Jul 2011, 01:15
 
chrisdvanne_Date: Wednesday, 13 Jul 2011, 09:59 | Message # 22
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Back to business after a good night's sleep and ready to answer you Blazius!

It was certainly hard to come after the other female lead of the franchise : princess Leia. I'm not an expert when it comes to SW but i think Leia was showed as a strong person from the start : she was the one who dared to defy the Emperor and one of the leaders of the rebellion. On a more intimate level, she played a funny game resisting to Han Solo flirting with her.

Obviously Lucas had difficulties to incorporate a strong female lead in the movie; he tried to conceal the vacuity of the character behind extravagant dress and make-up on a first step then with more revealing clothes on a next step but both attempt failed because the character itself was not strong enough. Maybe it's part of the genre also : space battles, laser guns, lots of FX appeal to fanboys but not so much to fangirls.

But other director managed to do this, like Whedon as i said but he's not the only one. And being in a military environment is not an excuse : Battlestar Galactica managed to have equally strong males and females characters (proof : they shower together!).

Legendary director John Ford symbolizes the glorification of the male attitude in his westerns; yet if you look closely, it's the women (wife or girlfriend ) that push the heroes to move forward and take the correct decisions on critical moments. Womens are the real strong characters in Ford's movie, even if they don't participate to the action.

Whedon has a great moment figuring this that i described in my previous "Why i have faith in Summer Glau" post :
Quote
The final scenes of Serenity, when the crew is surrounded by reavers and Mal is fighting with The Operative, is a crisis at its climax and the audience should fear for the future of their beloved characters. And what happens when everything seems lost? We see a turn in River's existence. I'm not talking about the big slaughter with the reavers but the moment right before that when she is with her dying brother. Suddenly she is transformed from protected to protector : "you have always taking care of me ...my turn".
I embbed here the video of that scene; you'll notice the lights effects at the very moment River stands up and says "my turn" : the ligths suddenly went on and she goes from the darkness to the light while runing with determination to face her fate. At that very moment, River was not a child anymore but a woman, not the girl the crew protected but the girl who protects them.


Now for the second part of your post : you're right and unfortunately Summer has not yet find the role that could give her a mainstream exposure. Even if River Tam and Cameron were iconic roles, they are not mainstream. I had great expectations from Orwell because Summer landed on main network and i thought that would help her gain exposure alas The Cape failed.

It's always less risky for Hollywood to capitalize on actors that already have aquired a relative fame; else actresses like Katherine Heigl would not make the shallow movies she makes. These movies will not lead her to an Oscar but at least she's given the opportunity to make her job as an actress which is in itself not that bad. Don't be fooled : even the best actors made one or two great performances out of 5 movies.

Another example featuring an actress who physically look like Summer Glau : Olivia Wilde. I have never see an article that praises her performance as an actress, still she gets roles in blockbusters like Tron or Cowboy & Aliens. I hope for her she will find a role that will allow her to show some real acting skills but even if she doesn't, Hollywood system is made so that she will continue to find roles in various movies. Good for her.
And now i will show a visually striking example of the difference between Olivia Wilde and Summer Glau : go to the reddit section dedicated to Olivia Wilde at http://www.reddit.com/r/oliviawilde/. The section is filled with links to photoshoot, magazine covers, picts of various parts of Olivia Wilde's body and i dare you to find a single post about her acting skills like we do in the wiki.
One could say it's due to the differences between the fanbases but i would not be as pretentious to say that Summer's fans are more intelligent or educated than Olivia's fans; it's just that Hollywood, by giving her easy on the eye figurehead roles, has formatted the fans to see her as an object and not as an actress.

Olivia Wilde and Moon Bloodgood have taken the place that Summer Glau could have had in mainstream scifi productions in Hollywood so far. The fact that Summer Glau has played so many interesting characters offers us the opportunity to have constructive debates here but i wouldn't mind Summer having a peace of fame. Let's hope her talent agency will do a good job in this field.


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Message edited by michelangelo - Wednesday, 13 Jul 2011, 12:27
 
GraniteDate: Wednesday, 13 Jul 2011, 12:03 | Message # 23
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Many thanks for the informative post!

" It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think... "

" Pain ... It is the healing, purifying scalpel of our souls " - Warhammer 40000 universe.
 
BlaziusDate: Wednesday, 13 Jul 2011, 15:01 | Message # 24
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Quote (michelangelo)
It was certainly hard to come after the other female lead of the franchise : princess Leia. I'm not an expert when it comes to SW but i think Leia was showed as a strong person from the start : she was the one who dared to defy the Emperor and one of the leaders of the rebellion. On a more intimate level, she played a funny game resisting to Han Solo flirting with her.


You grasped the nature of Leia very well. She was indeed far more stronger than Padme(the Portman character). And her strenght showed in deeds not just because we are told that she is strong. The examples which you mentioned are good. She also participated in firefights more often. In Empire Strikes Back near the end she became the leader of the group after Han was taken by Boba Fett. Actually she was very strong in this movie, even more than in the first . Of course Lucas had to ruin everything with the ridiciolus "metal bikini" thingy (I'm not sure what he tried to achieve there)!

Quote (michelangelo)
Obviously Lucas had difficulties to incorporate a strong female lead in the movie; he tried to conceal the vacuity of the character behind extravagant dress and make-up on a first step then with more revealing clothes on a next step but both attempt failed because the character itself was not strong enough. Maybe it's part of the genre also : space battles, laser guns, lots of FX appeal to fanboys but not so much to fangirls.


He surely had difficulties so he tried to do some amateurish tricks like suggesting the characters strenght in dialogue and then contradicting it in the action scenes. I must add that in the Original Trilogy he put a huge amount of symbolism into the film so a huge amount of story wasn't spoken or written but you had to figure it out by keeping attention to the symbols but in the prequels you learnt about the story almost exclusively from dialogues, but thats another thing.

I don't know about the clothes. They never suggested me any kind of strenght. Sure she was sexy and beautiful and all but strong? First I had the thought that a former queen and a senator for example wouldn't make a joke of herself by wearing those clothes. For gods sake she was the one responsible for the future of the planet, she isn't a Twilek dancer in a cantina! In fact her wardrobe made things even worse because you just couldn't take her seriously enough.

As for the genre doesn't support strong females. In fact the SW setting supports it extremely well! In the expanded universe there are just as many strong females as males. Mara Jade, Admiral Daala , even the designer of the Death Star was female in the EU!


Quote (michelangelo)
Another example featuring an actress who physically look like Summer Glau : Olivia Wilde. I have never see an article that praises her performance as an actress, still she gets roles in blockbusters like Tron or Cowboy & Aliens. I hope for her she will find a role that will allow her to show some real acting skills but even if she doesn't, Hollywood system is made so that she will continue to find roles in various movies. Good for her.
And now i will show a visually striking example of the difference between Olivia Wilde and Summer Glau : go to the reddit section dedicated to Olivia Wilde at http://www.reddit.com/r/oliviawilde/. The section is filled with links to photoshoot, magazine covers, picts of various parts of Olivia Wilde's body and i dare you to find a single post about her acting skills like we do in the wiki.
One could say it's due to the differences between the fanbases but i would not be as pretentious to say that Summer's fans are more intelligent or educated than Olivia's fans; it's just that Hollywood, by giving her easy on the eye figurehead roles, has formatted the fans to see her as an object and not as an actress.


Thats exactly the contrast I'm talking about! Unsatisfying but mainstream roles make somebody famous. An actress only needs to be sexy to get such roles, it doesn't matter if she sucks at acting and even if she can act, she cannot demonstrate her skills. Now I'm glad that you brought up the difference between her and Summers fanbase.

Because Olivia relies only on her beauty and sex appeal to get fans she will degrade into an object, a beautiful thing, the people are only interested in her body, and they don't care for the person just..., well for her body. On the other hand we care about Summer Glau. We care about her well being, we respect her, we praise her beauty too but thats not the first priority, we praise her talent, her characters, her work.

Our threads are more civilized than just everybody remarks how he would like to "be with her". As you correctly pointed out it isn't because we are more intelligent but because Summer gives us real material to speak about, and she actually has a real personality for which we can care about. We don't praise her skills because we want to justify our "crush" on her but because she is talented for real.

It comes in the expense of Summers fame, but the thing is that she gets far more love from her fans than any high-profile actress,even actor could ever dream of. In this sense Summer is far more precious than every other actor ever will be. Therefore I don't know if its worth to sacrifice who Summer is for the sake of fame, but its Summers call, not ours.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
GraniteDate: Wednesday, 13 Jul 2011, 20:00 | Message # 25
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Guys, thread is definitely great!

I'll tell you about what I can not keep silent

1
Quote (Blazius)
... nature of Leia ...


Of course, we are talking about Star Wars and female images in the saga, but. I have never come out against aspirations to show women in cinema weak \ helpless. Never, even if the image itself - full of grotesque.

2
Quote (Blazius)
Because Olivia ...


Olivia - a good woman.
I have never liked a tendency among fans of ... among fans of anything, actually. Every actor, athlete, politician implements some ideas. And if there are ideas, then there are anti - ideas. Do any fans is "hated enemy" of one or a few, hated by a greater or lesser degree. This is natural, but wrong. In my opinion, to oppose his idol, someone is wrong.

This is acceptable in a debate between fans of various actors (but I'm sure that this debate will not end well -))) ), but our site is organized numerous community and Summer Glau, but there is another roughly equal to the forces of the community. Always a sad when somewhere on the internet about Summer say disrespectful, but aside from the injustice such statements always contain one more thing - rudeness


" It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think... "

" Pain ... It is the healing, purifying scalpel of our souls " - Warhammer 40000 universe.


Message edited by Granite - Wednesday, 13 Jul 2011, 20:44
 
chrisdvanne_Date: Wednesday, 13 Jul 2011, 20:40 | Message # 26
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Thanks for appreciating the debate!

I can understand your concerns for other actresses or fanbases Granite and if you read me correctly i have taken many precautions in my statements in order not to hurt anyone. Me and other members in this thread don't set actresses or fanbases against each other or mock them; i'm very well aware that the members of the wiki have the right to love another actress or be a member of another fansite.

But taking examples is an easy way to send a message; i'm just stating facts, i invite anyone to follow the link to Olivia's reddit section and you will see i'm talking about facts. It allows me to build my argumentation but i avoid to be pass judgment.

As i said in another post, actors, especially young females, are mostly instrumentalized by the studios and the press magazine; that's often the price to pay if you want to go mainstream and i don't blame anyone for that. You'll notice that i'm even jealous of their fame and would like Summer Glau to have some too.


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BlaziusDate: Thursday, 14 Jul 2011, 00:30 | Message # 27
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Quote (michelangelo)
I can understand your concerns for other actresses or fanbases Granite and if you read me correctly i have taken many precautions in my statements in order not to hurt anyone. Me and other members in this thread don't set actresses or fanbases against each other or mock them; i'm very well aware that the members of the wiki have the right to love another actress or be a member of another fansite.


I didn't want to mock anybody either. I have nothing against Portman or Olivia, in fact I'm a bit concerned about how hard it may be to earn and keep their fame in this not very perfect system.

The Olivia page is very useful I think. If you read the comments its clear to me that the writers desire a more "pure" system where the females are not used as eyecandy and they have talent. Also they (not me) write negative comments about how Olivia poses in erotic photoshoots too much and she is only famous because of her beauty while they made remarks that she is not very talented.

Now I happen to know somebody who is talented, does only a few if any erotic photoshoots, and her beauty is almost irrelevant to her achievements. And is she as famous as we would like her to be? I guess not.

Quote (michelangelo)
You'll notice that i'm even jealous of their fame and would like Summer Glau to have some too.


So its a it strange to me. Those who know Olivia and may even be her fans would like her to have a lifestyle and approach to career as the girl we are all very familiar with and at the same time we envy Olivia for her fame which our girl doesn't have.

I would also like our girl to be famous too or at least get high-profile roles but its clear that we can't have everything so either way we must sacrifice one thing for the sake of another. Of course we must make progress but I say we should proceed carefully so our victory won't be as bitter as a defeat.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
chrisdvanne_Date: Thursday, 14 Jul 2011, 10:00 | Message # 28
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Blazius, you're a visionary..or you have acquaintance at Io9.com

Io9.com columnist Charlie Jane Anders published today the 10 Greatest Unintentionally Hilarious Lines from Science Fiction and Fantasy.

Quote
Charlie Jane Anders —10 Greatest Unintentionally Hilarious Lines from Science Fiction and FantasyOne of the great joys of watching science fiction and fantasy is to appreciate the unintentionally hilarious lines that come out of people's mouths sometimes. It's inevitable that when you're exploring mind-expanding premises and weird worlds, you're bound to run into some really insane conversations.

Sometimes our favorite movies and TV shows feature some hideously ridiculous dialogue. Sometimes nonsensical and melodramatic speech is part of why bad movies are such a guilty pleasure. Here are the 10 awesomest lines of unintentionally funny dialogue from science fiction and fantasy movies and television.


Apparently you're not the only one who thinks Padme's lines fell flat...or are unintentionally hilarious if you prefer.

Quote
4. Star Wars: Almost every line from the prequels.
Especially Padme's "I'm not afraid to die... I've been dying a little bit each day since you came back into my life." And Anakin's "Love can't save you, Padme. Only my new powers can." Oh, and "You killed the younglings!" Oh, and "Good call, my young Padawan!" But really, almost any line of dialogue from the prequel trilogy, especially any scene with Anakin and Padme, is side-splitting despite all of George Lucas' lofty ambitions. (Thanks, Ariel, Sean, Andrew, Jennifer, Clinton, Jack and Landy!)


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BlaziusDate: Thursday, 14 Jul 2011, 14:47 | Message # 29
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Quote (michelangelo)
Blazius, you're a visionary..or you have acquaintance at Io9.com


I have absolutely no ties to Io9.com so its funny!

But they describe fairly well what I'm talking about(maybe they read my posts ninja ).

Indeed those lines were that bad. Couple it with a mediocre delivery and that Lucas absolutely miscasted Hayden Christensen as young Darth Vader and its a total catastrophe.

I recommend everybody to watch it through. Just for fun!


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
chrisdvanne_Date: Thursday, 14 Jul 2011, 15:01 | Message # 30
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As you saw, i changed the title of the thread because it was the source of misunderstanding; i think the new one fits better. It allows also to cover a wider range of topics related to Hollywood business
Feel free to post other messages if you want to underline a particular pattern in Hollywood, not especially in SW.


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