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Summer-Glau.com Forum » Filmography » Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles » Time line for TSCC (Changes in present influence the future)
Time line for TSCC
ThierryDate: Wednesday, 25 Apr 2012, 12:13 | Message # 1
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An idea for those who like the time travel and maths :
Who could draw a kind of map which illustrate all the changes made to time during the episodes of TSCC ?
There are many events which occurs in the present of the plot, which influence the timeline...

This, knowing that :
- if Judgement Day doesn't occur, there is no robots, no Cameron, etc...
- if Judgement Day doesn't occur, how can Kyle Reese make a travel through time ? there is no John Connor
- (many of )the events of TSCC cancel themselves, like a kind of recursiveness

To do simple, let's just try to draw a time map according to the plot of TSCC. If the original movies are included, it may be really complicated...

Logistics :
- Time travel manuals
- James Gleick's book "Chaos Theory"
- Stephen Hawking's books about space and time
- Hofstadter's book "Gödel Escher Bach : An Eternal Golden Brain"
- .... aspirin wink


So much grace is beautiful and peaceful for the mind and the eyes.
 
ChrisDate: Wednesday, 25 Apr 2012, 13:42 | Message # 2
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I think the theory is because Kyle already jumped back the same as Cameron etc then should Skynet be stopped those events would not change because they effectively came from a different possible future but seriously just pop an aspirin now trying to wrap your head around the Terminator timelines and how changes in the past affect the future along with people coming back from the future to make changes will just mess with your head IMO.
 
chrisdvanneDate: Friday, 27 Apr 2012, 01:43 | Message # 3
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There's a snippet about the time line in TV Guide published in February 11th, 2008 :

TV Guide - February 11, 2008


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Message edited by chrisdvanne - Friday, 27 Apr 2012, 01:44
 
chrisdvanneDate: Tuesday, 01 May 2012, 21:50 | Message # 4
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Here's an interview with Brian Austin Green to fuel the debate about the timeline and alternative realities :



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Message edited by chrisdvanne - Tuesday, 01 May 2012, 21:51
 
FermiDate: Wednesday, 02 May 2012, 18:52 | Message # 5
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Quote (Thierry)
An idea for those who like the time travel and maths :
Who could draw a kind of map which illustrate all the changes made to time during the episodes of TSCC ?
There are many events which occurs in the present of the plot, which influence the timeline...

This, knowing that :
- if Judgement Day doesn't occur, there is no robots, no Cameron, etc...
- if Judgement Day doesn't occur, how can Kyle Reese make a travel through time ? there is no John Connor
- (many of )the events of TSCC cancel themselves, like a kind of recursiveness

To do simple, let's just try to draw a time map according to the plot of TSCC. If the original movies are included, it may be really complicated...

Logistics :
- Time travel manuals
- James Gleick's book "Chaos Theory"
- Stephen Hawking's books about space and time
- Hofstadter's book "Gödel Escher Bach : An Eternal Golden Brain"
- .... aspirin wink


I like the idea of making a time map of TSCC. I think it should include the original movies, but not T3 or Salvation.

Time travel back in time most likely will violate the laws of Physics (only forward is possible), considering the paradoxes that will occur.

In T1 the time traveling was the cause of: Skynet being created, John Connor being born. The events in the past could not change the future, it created the future instead.

In T2 it was possible to stop or postpone judgment day, "no fate but what we make." This causes a paradox because the future that Kyle Reese time traveled from, no longer exist.

In Salvation they really messed up the laws of time. John Conner need to make sure that young Kyle Reese survive so that he in the future can send him back, so that John Conner can be born. If young Kyle dies will the already grownup John Conner just cease to exist?

I suggest following definition of the laws of time:

An event can change the future. When that happens the old future will cease to exist, but time travelers from the old future that is already present in the current time or in the past will not be effected by this event. New time travelers that arrives at a time point after that the "future changing event" occurred will come from a new future generated by that event.


If we going to do this time map we need to discuss how a time map will look like (try to make a simple graphic), then we need to define all future changing events in TSCC that will generate new time timelines.

I am not sure if this (not so logic) logic is even possible to implement for all the stuff that happens in TSCC. I fear that this map will become very complex maybe Stephen Hawkings will join this wiki and help us out :)))))).


You can't stop the signal!
 
BlaziusDate: Wednesday, 02 May 2012, 19:26 | Message # 6
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Quote (Fermi)
I am not sure if this (not so logic) logic is even possible to implement for all the stuff that happens in TSCC. I fear that this map will become very complex maybe Stephen Hawkings will join this wiki and help us out :)))))).


I confess I was able to kinda follow the T universes timeline and changes until TSCC. There they went very heavily on the alternate timelines stuff and yeah. I wasn't sure anymore who came from where and why. Or who is whose grandma smile

The thing I noticed is that there are multiple Skynets and multiple versions of people and they all can travel between timelines at will. Even if you kill Skynet in one timeline the other can send somebody to kill you in a victorious timeline wacko . Does this war even end where the paradoxes completely mess up the cause and effect conventions?

Lol I'm already lost wacko


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ThierryDate: Wednesday, 02 May 2012, 20:10 | Message # 7
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That's good to catch a headache.... found a drawn timeline, it looks more complicated than strings theory's multiverses theory biggrin

T-timeline

source : terminator wikia

in short, it gives : T timeline synthesis

source : terminator wikia

any questions ? need aspirins ?

biggrin


So much grace is beautiful and peaceful for the mind and the eyes.
 
ThierryDate: Wednesday, 02 May 2012, 20:13 | Message # 8
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But TSCC seems to be not completely included in these 2 timelines...

biggrin


So much grace is beautiful and peaceful for the mind and the eyes.
 
ThierryDate: Wednesday, 02 May 2012, 20:15 | Message # 9
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am wrong : it is for the second timeline, TSCC is included.

-> aspirin.


So much grace is beautiful and peaceful for the mind and the eyes.
 
FermiDate: Wednesday, 02 May 2012, 21:08 | Message # 10
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Hmm in the original time-line were Uncle Bob and liquid metal comes from Kyle Reese was sent back to protect Sarah Connor. Cameron and Cromatie comes from a different future, because the future was changed by the event in T2, but also in that future Kyle Reese was sent back to protect Sarah Connor. If this occurs in all time-lines would there not be several Kyle Reeses from alternatives futures trying to rescue Sarah in 1984.

Just saying.. One need to introduce alternative pasts too.

Edit I see on the time-lines in Thierrys link in the TSCC timeline John Connor is born on November 14, 1983 and in T1 timeline on February 28, 1985

The different times lines looks like this, which does not share the exact same past



You can't stop the signal!
 
ThierryDate: Wednesday, 02 May 2012, 21:18 | Message # 11
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I think we have to find a methodology to do this :

a kind of logical tree, which arrows which point to the differents possibilities. The basis questions to each "time cross" would be :
- can the event B occurs if (and only if) the event A occurs ?
- can the event C occurs if the event B doesn't occur, knowing that the event A can only occur if the event B occurs ?

Actually, the structure of the logical tree would be useful, I have to think about it as a work proces model....


So much grace is beautiful and peaceful for the mind and the eyes.
 
REGDate: Monday, 07 May 2012, 14:14 | Message # 12
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there are 7 timelines in total as listed on the terminator files.

also consider this:

all timelines are relative to the person's point of view. for example, for John Connor, Kyle Reese going back in time, from his perspective Kyle is from the future. but from Kyle's perspective John's time is the past. now in an alternative timeline it could be different again. for example, future John sending a message to Sarah, from future John's perspective it is the past, but from Kyle's perspective in the past (1984) it is the future where the message came from. far out i got a bit confused just writing that out lol!


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ThierryDate: Monday, 07 May 2012, 20:59 | Message # 13
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Quote (REG)
all timelines are relative to the person's point of view. for example, for John Connor, Kyle Reese going back in time, from his perspective Kyle is from the future. but from Kyle's perspective John's time is the past. now in an alternative timeline it could be different again. for example, future John sending a message to Sarah, from future John's perspective it is the past, but from Kyle's perspective in the past (1984) it is the future where the message came from. far out i got a bit confused just writing that out lol!


That's correct.... Am thinking of a concept of a "metatime", a kind of arrow of time....

The second step will be to build a timeline, but from the buddhist point of view (cyclical/"non-birth" but with "being of the being") biggrin


So much grace is beautiful and peaceful for the mind and the eyes.
 
FermiDate: Monday, 07 May 2012, 22:34 | Message # 14
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One only follows one time-line the events that happens in Sarah and Johns life, the timetravlers will come from futures that does not necessary share the same past. The best structure for a time map is a tree structure: where the tree trunk represent the story of Sarah and Johns as we see it, where the branches represent alternative futures that our time travlers comes from, where the nodes between the trunk and the branches represent "future changing events".

Eg of "future changing events":


  • Miles Dyson destroys his research and postpones Judgment day in T2 (in the future that Kyle Reese and T-800 comes from this never happened).

  • Cameron times travel with John and Sarah from 1999 to 2007 (in the future Cameron comes from Sarah Connor dies of cancer in 2005).

  • Derek Reese killing Andy Goode (in flashbacks from Dereks future Andy is present and alive).



It is hinted that Jesse and Riley (they time-travled together) comes from another future than Derek
A problem is that we also know too little about our time travlers pasts and that there are a lot of contradictions that could just be the writers fault.


You can't stop the signal!
 
FermiDate: Tuesday, 08 May 2012, 22:12 | Message # 15
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To illustrate what I am talking about here is a simple drawing.



Green points represent "future changing events"
Red dotted lines represent time travel from the future to the past.
Blue dotted lines represent time travel from the past to the future.

I am not sure if Derek shares the same past as Cameron. Jesse was questioned by Cameron at Serrano Point in the future (Today Is the Day: Part 2). In the past when talking to Derek she seems to remember that conversation, maybe that happened in two time lines.
I have no clue what timeline Catherine Weaver comes from. The main time line follow John and Sarahs point of view. Paradoxical Time travlers from Camerons time line like Kyle Reese will be sent to a parallel universe or the rabbit hole.


You can't stop the signal!
 
Summer-Glau.com Forum » Filmography » Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles » Time line for TSCC (Changes in present influence the future)
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