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Summer-Glau.com Forum » Filmography » Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles » Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
termi-ninja-torDate: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 17:30 | Message # 76
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Quote (michelangelo)
What is the point of the reprogrammed T's going bad? That alone should have prevent JC from doing it and the Human Resistance to accept it. But we're not talking about logic, we're talking about a tv show; the writers used it as a plot device to explain what will happen to Cameron in the future.

Yes, it was a plot device, but it does not mean that Cameron killed future John. The plot device was used in other ways.

That reprogrammed T's can go bad helps explain how (1) Cameron's base terminator programming took over after the Jeep explosion, (2) Cameron lost her reprogramming temporarily in Allison from Palmdale, and (3) why Cameron was concerned about reverting again such that she gave John a kill switch in a watch locket. It also explained why the terminator in the future went bad and almost killed Derek -- this gave us a chance to see that Cameron had once saved Derek's life in the future.

It is not necessary to assume that the plot device was introduced to imply that Cameron killed future John. That would be an imaginary conclusion.
 
chrisdvanneDate: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 17:33 | Message # 77
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@ termi-ninja-tor

I give up!
I have build my reasoning from all the hints given by the writers and Josh Friedman but you're free to have another interpretation.


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termi-ninja-torDate: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 17:48 | Message # 78
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Quote (michelangelo)
@ termi-ninja-tor

I give up!
I have build my reasoning from all the hints given by the writers and Josh Friedman but you're free to have another interpretation.


I see your logic and respect your reasoning. The nature of the show supports so many interpretations, that is part of why I found it so entertaining. Of course, there is no definitive answer; we are all free to enjoy our own opinions. I enjoy comparing interpretations and discussing details with smart and observant fans like yourself. Thanks for the conversation.
 
ChrisDate: Thursday, 03 Nov 2011, 03:23 | Message # 79
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Quote (michelangelo)
Another quote : Why Cameron tried so hard to hide the alliance proposal with the t1001 from young JC ? Why was she so pissed off when James Ellison mentioned "will you join us" in front of JC (in 'Born to Run')?


Cameron looked more upset about the message, she obviously knew that it meant they were asking her for help which she gave but she would have reasoned if she told John about what they were asking he would have tried to stop her from doing it, his reaction to John Henry having her chip said it all he already associated the chip as being Cameron not just her body it would have been highly unlikely that John would have let Cameron go there if he knew what was beig asked of her.

She did get angry with Ellison but that was effective to get rid of him and stop John from asking more questions, I would say given that Cameron most likely watched John sleep that she was expecting to not see him again after recieving that message speculation of course though.


Message edited by Chris - Thursday, 03 Nov 2011, 03:25
 
ChrisDate: Thursday, 03 Nov 2011, 03:49 | Message # 80
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Sorry MichaelAngelo but I don't see enough evidence of Cameron having killed John in the future as for why is Cameron back in time did everyone forget about Cromartie trying to kill him at high school of course Future John would have sent himself a protector as to why it Cameron was sent back maybe it was because she would fit in the easiest at school in addition to being able to carry out additional tasks.

It is not unfair to reason that John has isolated himself from dealing directly with soldiers because he has trouble dealing with sending them to their deaths and using Cameron as a liason is an added protection factor for him after all your talking about someone that has spent his entire life with Skynet trying to kill him even before he was born that sort of thing could make you paranoid combined with John has grown up not forming bonds with people and the ones he does form bonds with end up dying there is no reason to not think this is a possibility John may well have died in the future which they tried to cover up but I doubt that the higher level officers would not have known about it the likely hood of Cameron running the Resistance in John's name with no one knowing about it is unlikely.

Jesse saying John was making questionable decisions is not that surprising hello she commited mutiney on the Jimmy Carter she appeared to be feeling guilty over killing Queeg too so its not any great revelation that she would seek to blame someone else for what happened when all the way through Queeg told her and the crew they did not need to hunt the T 1001 just go about their duties and the T 1001 made no move to harm anyone else just the crew member with the Plasma rifle.

I think part of why Derek hates Cameron is he wanted to be killed by the terminator that went bad in the base yet Cameron saved him when he was ready to die he also considered eating a bullet when Jesse met him yet she offered a more caring approach where as Cameron treated it as business as usual yet she tried to show in other ways that she cared what happened to Derek she was trying to save him when he got shot and went mental screaming to keep her away from him yet she still wanted to help him.
 
KrelleKDate: Monday, 07 Nov 2011, 08:21 | Message # 81
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Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
Without Cameron's jump back to 1999, John Henry would not have been created. His creation was a byproduct of her mission. So Cameron could not have known John Henry in her future because John Henry would not have been created until after Cameron jumped back to 1999.

In Born to Run, John Henry said "I know you" to Cameron because he had been watching her on the surveillance cameras first at the Weaver house and later at the jail. He wanted to tell her that he knew she was a terminator and that she was friendly to the Connors. She said "I know you" back to him to tell him that she knew he was a terminator's body (remember Cromartie) and a member of the Third Faction because Ellison had communicated Weaver's question "Will you join us?" They were using the word "know" as in the sense of "know what you are," not in the sense of "I have met you before."


as you mention that And´s Turk2 became JH, I think that th future Camy came from, and possibly also CW, where there was a thrid faction either set up by the LMT that became CW, but this 3faction, mghit not have the slightly human pov to it that the turk2/JH would most likely provide to it, and CW perhaps think the 3faction needed something untagible(a humanish pov perhaps?)that that was what had gone wrong to the meeting in the sub in some way, (in the preps fpr this meeting).
 
chrisdvanneDate: Monday, 07 Nov 2011, 10:27 | Message # 82
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@ Chris

Your explanations, though making perfect sense, lack a higher point of view (some may say "an overarching arc story"); Cameron has a secret agenda that goes far more deeper than just coming back to save JC from Cromartie.

We don't know who commissioned the Carter mission (Or the the "Will you join us?" strategy if you prefer); is it JC trying to create an alliance with rogue T's or is it Cameron after she took over the resistance. Queeg's words do not give us an indication : he takes his orders from Cameron (JC's liason) presumably in any cases.

Just like Derek saying the resistance waits from JC to act human, Jesse aknowledge the fact that JC's orders (impersonated by Cameron in my theory) are questionable from an human point of you, indeed. It's another hint that my theory might be the one.

Side note : i may have chosen michelangelo username...

...but i'm more than


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ChrisDate: Tuesday, 08 Nov 2011, 09:05 | Message # 83
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@ michelangelo
I could say a similar thing about your theory that Cameron killed John Connor and took over running the resistance. Cameron had a terrible way of hiding her secret agenda for being back in time in addition to protecting JC, she never hid it from John that she was teaching him she just didnt tell him outright that she was doing that rather let him work it out for himself which he calls her out on after he helps her replace several damaged components in her left arm after letting him take a look and identifying the damage then when he says about her being able to self repair she tells him he is ahead of schedule. When he is looking at Vick's chip Cameron tells him she has no idea how to hack the chip but he does but when he asks her to get him food from the 7 11 she makes it quite clear that she is going no where while he is looking at the chip instead she sits on a stool and continues watches him doing it. If you watch T1 and T2 neither of the protectors sent back merely protected the person either they trained them and started preparing them for what was to come just like cameron was doing before she gave her chip to John Henry only Cameron had alot more time with John so it is likely that she had far more extensive training to do with John then the other protectors.

You also choose to highlight low level Resistance soldiers to back up your theory about Cameron taking over when it is obvious that Derek has always had a mistrust of the machines and he is of such a low level of importance that john connor never tells him where is own brother went too even when he was sending him back in time and even then Derek's words can be taken to say that John Connor has never acted like a human even before the machines including Cameron came along as Derek doesnt say JC stopped being human and Jesse says he makes questionable decisions and calls well when you cant see the overall picture sometimes it looks like its a questionable decision until someone shows you everything that is going which if you want to infer by the fact that she was not told about the mission to pick up the T 1001 that she was not high enough to be involved in more likely just a soldier ridiing on the sub since it was made quite clear that the only person who could run the sub was Queeg by Jesse's own admisson to Derek.

As for the Carters orders again your clutching at straws Queeg never says Cameron gave me the orders on behalf of JC he says he is following his orders did Queeg screw up with not telling the other commanders on the sub about the overall plan for the T 1001 being on the sub definately I believe Jesse felt she was backed into a corner by Queeg's unwillingness to share the mission information with her so she acted out of fear and panic which is probably what JC saw I mean if you think about it Jesse cost the resistance an alliance with the 3rd faction and a submarine if Cameron was running the resistance at that time do you think she would have let Jesse go free highly unlikely given she kills anyone deemed to be a threat or simply lets them die when she is first with JC until she starts to question the value of human life more which is shown with Riley who she should have killed but was unsure what to do a the time.

Dont get me wrong I like the alternate theory but I just dont see it as being possible that Cameron was running the resistance and after killing JC why would she hang around rather then just jump back in time immediately to fix her mistake. it was also shown that the terminators didnt just kill one person when they went bad the kiled everyone as to why she didnt kill Sarah when she could have Sarah was never on any termination list she wouldnt even be regarded as a resistance soldier after she gave birth to JC she was not longer important to Skynet and Cameron sought to use her to lure JC back but left her there showing she was not important and if you want to read more into is possibly also Cameron was fighting the termination order already trying to stop herself. Cameron is scared that she will kill him because deep down the order is always there but the only reason she would be scared of hurting or killing JC is she has feelings for him if she didnt care about JC the the threat of killing him would not bother her.
 
chrisdvanneDate: Tuesday, 08 Nov 2011, 10:32 | Message # 84
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One cannot deny that Cameron is still a mystery for the audience (Jesse and Riley were also but their arc story was explained completely); i remember back in the days in TSCC boards the fans were wondering about Cameron's actions but rarely about John's or Sarah's.

Thanks to Josh Friedman who didn't want to give us some kind of closure, we will never know the truth about Cameron. My point is that this is legitimate to guess that there is something behind Cameron, not just the obvious protector and trainer. Remember that we're talking about a tv show, hence this secret agenda has to be of dramatic essence, like the theory i'm suggesting for example.

The show ended too soon to give us closure and these things could have taken many places; we will never be able to proove anything, just give our own interpretation. This is exactly what Friedman said when the show was canceled. So be it.

If things go the way i want, i shall offer the fans a continuation of some plots of TSCC in the form of a (several?) comic. Be sure to make your voice heard about the scene you want to develop and the storyboard.
More info : michelangelo secret project


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KrelleKDate: Tuesday, 08 Nov 2011, 23:36 | Message # 85
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Quote (michelangelo)
I'm here to stop her...i'm here to save him.


I kinda like that, scene, and i have not a inkling of what a hell they come from, but could they not also just try and think of what John could possibly turn Cam and the other machines into(mostly cammy, due to 25 years of knowing Her John )
 
chrisdvanneDate: Tuesday, 08 Nov 2011, 23:49 | Message # 86
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Quote (KrelleK)
I kinda like that, scene, and i have not a inkling of what a hell they come from, but could they not also just try and think of what John could possibly turn Cam and the other machines into(mostly cammy, due to 25 years of knowing Her John )

You and me and many other fans see Cameron as a learning A.I. but i'm afraid Jesse, Derek and most of the resistance fighters see Camerons and all T's as "Metal", aka killing machines with no feelings. Adopting your point of view is too much to ask of them.

I'm sure staying for 25 years with John Connor would have had an impact on Cameron, just like Ellison had an impact on John Henry.


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termi-ninja-torDate: Tuesday, 08 Nov 2011, 23:51 | Message # 87
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Of course the ultimate goal for the Connors is to save humanity by defeating Skynet. Skynet's goal is to survive by killing all humans.

A secondary goal would be to prevent Judgment Day, to save billions of lives and our society.

John Connor's life is important because he is supposed to be able to defeat Skynet. That's why Skynet wanted to kill Sarah and young John. But keeping John alive is definiitely less important than defeating Skynet and preventing Judgment Day, i.e., John could be reasonably sacrificed if it would help attain those goals.

Based on Weaver term's comment about John Henry's importance in helping John Connor beat Skynet, it appears that John Henry also deserves protection. And, along with that, it is important that the Third Faction and the Resistance are joined in the future to fight Skynet on a coordinated basis.

Thus, Cameron's mission is logically threefold. First, defeat Skynet however possible. She helped destroy the precursor to the Skynet of her future when she jumped Sarah forward in the bank vault and put her in a position to destroy the first Turk. Second, help the Third Faction and the Resistance join together. She did this by offering her chip to John Henry, providing him a way to escape the Zeira basement, where he was being targeted by the Kaliba AI, another Skynet precursor. Third, protect John Connor, which she did many times, beginning with saving him from Cromartie in the pilot.

These are straight-forward and obvious. It is not necessary to get into complicated theories based on conjecture and subjective interpretations. While those are possible because they haven't been explicitly excluded, they are essentially fanciful in nature, for the entertainment of jaded and bored imaginations.
 
KrelleKDate: Tuesday, 08 Nov 2011, 23:53 | Message # 88
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sorry if this is the wrong thread

it may be a thought that has run in my mind before, but never made it out before. But thinking of the T-Salvation movie, John does not seem to remember that he had, had one actually 2 good machine protectors to be his bodyguard. until the end he chooses to trust the one that is a machine but believe he is human, but it seems it is not because he has had good experiences with machines but because, the man/manchine seemingly offers him a chance to save civilians, that he just have to take because it is the right thing to do.

It also seems like that there has never really been anything indicating that the guys in charge(millitary) has apologised on behalf of there former government that they thought sarah insane even through she turned out to be right, and no an apology would not mean much at the time, or change anything but it could give John an insentive, or respect them more.

I am not sure of cause but in some moments of the T salvation movie it seems like that T2 and T3 has not happened, because well John seems to be just just somekind of middle man, I mean yes he was young in the end of T3 but he was after all the one who answered the call from the different places. as the person in Crystal Peak, that should have given him some respect


Message edited by KrelleK - Wednesday, 09 Nov 2011, 01:06
 
termi-ninja-torDate: Tuesday, 08 Nov 2011, 23:56 | Message # 89
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Of course the ultimate goal for the Connors is to save humanity by defeating Skynet. Skynet's goal is to survive by killing all humans.

A secondary goal would be to prevent Judgment Day, to save billions of lives and our society.

John Connor's life is important because he is supposed to be able to defeat Skynet. That's why Skynet wanted to kill Sarah and young John. But keeping John alive is definiitely less important than defeating Skynet and preventing Judgment Day, i.e., John could be reasonably sacrificed if it would help attain those goals.

Based on Weaver term's comment about John Henry's importance in helping John Connor beat Skynet, it appears that John Henry also deserves protection. And, along with that, it is important that the Third Faction and the Resistance are joined in the future to fight Skynet on a coordinated basis.

Thus, Cameron's mission is logically threefold. First, defeat Skynet however possible. She helped destroy the precursor to the Skynet of her future when she jumped Sarah forward in the bank vault and put her in a position to destroy the first Turk. Second, help the Third Faction and the Resistance join together. She did this by offering her chip to John Henry, providing him a way to escape the Zeira basement, where he was being targeted by the Kaliba AI, another Skynet precursor. Third, protect John Connor, which she did many times, beginning with saving him from Cromartie in the pilot.

These are straight-forward and obvious. It is not necessary to get into complicated theories based on conjecture and subjective interpretations. While those are possible because they haven't been explicitly excluded, they are essentially fanciful in nature, for the entertainment of jaded and bored imaginations.
 
chrisdvanneDate: Wednesday, 09 Nov 2011, 00:03 | Message # 90
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Agree!
A few remarks though:

1) You mention with reason that's helping the Third Faction and the Resistance to join forces is one of Cameron's missions but i'm not persuaded it's John's decision (TSCC doesn't give us a clear answer even Queeg mentioned it to Jesse).

2) I'm not a fanciful person; i try to build a reasoning from hints given by the writers; this is why i quote systematically TSCC lines when arguing of something.

3) Fanciful people shall be useful if we want to conduct a TSCC comics biggrin See : michelangelo secret project


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