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Summer-Glau.com Forum » Filmography » Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles » Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
termi-ninja-torDate: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 06:08 | Message # 61
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Quote (michelangelo)
Another quote : Why Cameron tried so hard to hide the alliance proposal with the t1001 from young JC ? Why was she so pissed off when James Ellison mentioned "will you join us" in front of JC (in 'Born to Run')?

I think Cameron decided that she needed to respond positively to Ellison's question, and this would necessitate her leaving John. Telling John about this ahead of time would tend to alarm him, which could cause difficulties in Cameron being able to carry out her plan.

I definitely did not get the impression that Cameron got pissed off when Ellison said "Will you join us?" I thought she decided what to do and then acted to prevent John from knowing. She did not want Ellison to say any more in front of John, so she told him to stop talking and leave. This was not because she was pissed, but rather she did not want John to know what was going to happen.
 
chrisdvanne_Date: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 09:53 | Message # 62
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Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
I think Cameron decided that she needed to respond positively to Ellison's question, and this would necessitate her leaving John. Telling John about this ahead of time would tend to alarm him, which could cause difficulties in Cameron being able to carry out her plan.

You forget the direct reference to the episode in the submarine inwhich the "metal monster" said no to "Will you join us". If Cameron responded positively, she would have to explain to JC why Catherine Weaver (as quoted by Ellison) said "She (Cameron) should know what this means".
Cameron don't want to inform JC about her plans but also she doesn't want to explain that she killed him in the future and asked the rogue T's for an alliance (remember : double meaning).

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
I definitely did not get the impression that Cameron got pissed off when Ellison said "Will you join us?"

I known i'm not English native but isn't the word "upset" a synonym for "pissed off"?
Quote ('Born to Run')
Cameron : Did he upset you?
John : Me? I think he upset you.


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Message edited by michelangelo - Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 09:53
 
FordStaffDate: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 10:42 | Message # 63
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I known i'm not English native but isn't the word "upset" a synonym for "pissed off"?


Yes, but they can vary from each other in context. Pissed off is more synonymous with angered than upset, because upset can have a fairly wide range of meaning (angered, depressed, nervous etc.). So I guess you could say that if a person is pissed off they are upset, but if a person were upset it does not necessarily mean they are pissed off.


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chrisdvanne_Date: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 11:05 | Message # 64
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Quote (FordStaff)
Yes, but they can vary from each other in context. Pissed off is more synonymous with angered than upset, because upset can have a fairly wide range of meaning (angered, depressed, nervous etc.). So I guess you could say that if a person is pissed off they are upset, but if a person were upset it does not necessarily mean they are pissed off.

Thanks, i checked on wordreference.com as i always do.
More importantely i wanted to underline the fact that termi-ninja-tor missed (on purpose i guess) an essential aspect of the scene.
As termi-ninja-tor said "she did not want John to know what was going to happen." but at the sametime she did not want John to know what happened in the future.


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reiverDate: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 14:06 | Message # 65
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Quote (michelangelo)
As termi-ninja-tor said "she did not want John to know what was going to happen." but at the sametime she did not want John to know what happened in the future.


yes i agree but still doesn't mean that she killed john in the future,perhaps he's not ready yet to accept the alliance of machines and humans(its a posibility)...and anyway in all terminator universe how many times future john connor have revealed himself???i remember 2 times only.......and another fact why jesse if she knew that cameron killed john why she doesnt tell to derek???

i have a headache with too many thoughts.......... lol lol


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chrisdvanne_Date: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 14:58 | Message # 66
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Quote (reiver)
and another fact why jesse if she knew that cameron killed john why she doesnt tell to derek???

Jesse doesn't know that; when she reported about the submarine and the metal monster, she said to Cameron she wanted to give the answer to John Connor himself.
For a period of time, no one knows about it, as proven by what Jesse said in TSCC s02ep10 'Strange Thing's Happen at the One Two Point'; this extract explains the point of view of the Human Resistance after Cameron killed future John (or something bad happened to him), them not knowing she did it of course.



The words that are emphasized here are Jesses's last words :
Quote
I'm here to stop her...i'm here to save him.


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termi-ninja-torDate: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 15:14 | Message # 67
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Quote (michelangelo)
You forget the direct reference to the episode in the submarine inwhich the "metal monster" said no to "Will you join us". If Cameron responded positively, she would have to explain to JC why Catherine Weaver (as quoted by Ellison) said "She (Cameron) should know what this means".
Cameron don't want to inform JC about her plans but also she doesn't want to explain that she killed him in the future and asked the rogue T's for an alliance (remember : double meaning).

We the viewers remember the question was first spoken in Today Is the Day Part 2 by Cameron to Jesse. We realize that Cameron must know what it means. We agree that Cameron does not want to explain it to John.

But I think she does not want to explain it to John because it might complicate or prevent her from carrying out her plan, not because it has anything to do with her killing future John.

Nothing in the conversation between Cameron and Jesse indicated that Cameron had killed John. The LMT had told Jesse to tell John Connor that the answer was "No." Cameron explained to Jesse that the LMT's "No" answer to John Connor was to the question "Will you join us?" There was no implication at all by anyone that John Connor was dead. Cameron could have explained the question to young John without saying anything about future John being dead.

I still do not think future John was dead. If you think he was dead, then would the humans lose the war with Skynet? The Resistance would have neither John Connor nor Cameron Phillips leading its strategy. And in this future, the Third Faction decided not to join the Resistance, so the Resistance did not have the help of the Third Faction's abilities. Was the war lost? Was this why Cameron jumped back in time -- to change the future to give the Resistance another chance? It seems too far off the main story to be believable.
 
reiverDate: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 15:19 | Message # 68
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the question is does jesse knew that cameron travel into the past to protect john thats why she follow her?or jesse just travel to the past not knowing that john is with cameron already in the past?

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termi-ninja-torDate: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 15:26 | Message # 69
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Quote (michelangelo)
For a period of time, no one knows about it, as proven by what Jesse said in TSCC s02ep10 'Strange Thing's Happen at the One Two Point'; this extract explains the point of view of the Human Resistance after Cameron killed future John (or something bad happened to him), them not knowing she did it of course.

Nice video extract.

All this video tells me is that Jesse and the other Resistance fighters believe John Connor is still alive. And I think they are correct -- future John was still alive.

As a military leader, John did not explain some of his orders. For example, we know that John called an attack on Skynet's Topanga Canyon facility to capture the time machine. But the time machine was a secret and very people knew about it. (Remember Perry refused to tell even Derek about Kyle's time jump mission.) While we understand the importance of capturing the time machine, the rank and file soldiers in the Resistance would have viewed the attack on Topanga Canyon as a waste of good men, because they were not told of the objective.

And there may have been other missions where the purpose was not explained to everyone. This does not mean that John Connor was dead. It only means that he needed some things done that he wanted to keep secret.
 
termi-ninja-torDate: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 15:35 | Message # 70
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Quote (reiver)
the question is does jesse knew that cameron travel into the past to protect john thats why she follow her?or jesse just travel to the past not knowing that john is with cameron already in the past?

I think Jesse knew that Cameron traveled into the past to be with John. Jesse expected to find them together. (Of course, it took Cameron more than 70 days to find John in 1999.)

Jesse brought Riley with her as a tool to separate Cameron from John. Jesse wanted Riley to become John's girlfriend and she expected Cameron to kill her. Jesse's plan failed because she did not realize that Cameron could evolve and overcome her base terminator programming -- she could prevent herself from killing Riley because she became more human-like.
 
chrisdvanne_Date: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 15:45 | Message # 71
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Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
Nothing in the conversation between Cameron and Jesse indicated that Cameron had killed John.

Wrong! Once again you forget one piece of the conversation.

Cameron to Jesse : "Telling me is the same as telling John Connor"
I translate for you : John Connor is dead and i have taken charge.

Of course you're free to have another interpretation of this sentence but if you sums up all the other sentences i quoted (as you know i don't imagine things, i guess them from the hints given by the writers), you will have to recognize my theory is the right one.


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chrisdvanne_Date: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 15:56 | Message # 72
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Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
All this video tells me is that Jesse and the other Resistance fighters believe John Connor is still alive.

Wrong! Once again you forget one piece of the conversation.

Jesse : He wasn't talking to anyone, just her.
I translate for you : John Connor is dead and i (Cameron) have taken charge.

Of course you're free to have another interpretation of this sentence but if you sums up all the other sentences i quoted (as you know i don't imagine things, i guess them from the hints given by the writers), you will have to recognize my theory is the right one.


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chrisdvanne_Date: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 16:03 | Message # 73
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I will try another approach.

What is the point of the reprogrammed T's going bad? That alone should have prevent JC from doing it and the Human Resistance to accept it. But we're not talking about logic, we're talking about a tv show; the writers used it as a plot device to explain what will happen to Cameron in the future.

Tv shows always follow the same pattern : an important upcoming event is foreshadowed by a similar minor event happening to minor characters. But the audience knows very well that the same will happen to a main character in a few episodes. In this case Cameron will go bersek and kill future John.


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reiverDate: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 16:17 | Message # 74
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Quote (michelangelo)
Tv shows always follow the same pattern : an important upcoming event is foreshadowed by a similar minor event happening to minor characters. But the audience knows very well that the same will happen to a main character in a few episodes. In this case Cameron will go bersek and kill future John.


with this i agree......In the Season 2 finale Cameron's eye is red. According to Josh Friedman's commentary track on the episode this is deliberate and reflects a change in her software, but he doesn't go into any more detail than that. It's possible that her eyes have been red since her Face Heel Turn, since she overcomes her compulsion to kill John rather than actually being repaired.
but in the future after the born run not in the future before cameron travel to protect john. its different


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termi-ninja-torDate: Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 17:20 | Message # 75
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Quote (michelangelo)
Wrong! Once again you forget one piece of the conversation.

Cameron to Jesse : "Telling me is the same as telling John Connor"
Jesse : He wasn't talking to anyone, just her.
I translate for you : John Connor is dead and i (Cameron) have taken charge.

Please. I did not forget about this. My memory is OK.

I think your "translation" is far off from what was actually spoken. There is nothing in Cameron's statement that would indicate that John Connor is dead and Cameron has taken charge. All she is saying is that she will convey the message to John.

I could "translate" her statement as "John and I are sleeping together every night and I whisper everything to him in bed across the pillow. I will tell him what you said tonight and give him suggestions about what to do for tomorrow. He will do whatever I say because he loves me completely and without question." LOL This would be an easier assumption than what you say: "I have killed John Connor and secretly replaced him as commander." ha ha


Message edited by termi-ninja-tor - Tuesday, 01 Nov 2011, 20:53
 
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