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Summer-Glau.com Forum » Filmography » Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles » Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
kaoticDate: Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 02:09 | Message # 301
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Quote (chrisdvanne)
The fact that she knows the future (she came from) changes every rules of grammatic; this is fact.


I disagree. You can't claim that just because she said "I might someday" as the same as she did kill him. That just doesn't work. But whatever, it's your interpretation.

I still say there are too many hole in your theory. Look at post 297... I only listed a few, but I can think of a bunch more.


Message edited by kaotic - Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 02:13
 
chrisdvanneDate: Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 02:10 | Message # 302
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Something that surprise me in the second season was the way Cameron reacted after she tried to kill John in Samson & Delilah :
First she told Sarah that John should not try to reactivate her if by chance she went berzek again.
Then she told John he could not be thrusted.
Then she implanted the explosive in her head and gave the trigger to John.

She overreacted imo; one can say it just shows how much his safety is important to her. My take is she overreacted because there is a possibility she hurt him badly (to death?) in her future and she doesn't want it to happen again.

Once again the knowledge of the future is the pivotal point of her actions; she knows how things went in the future and she doesn't want the same mistakes to happen. This is why she came in the past imo, to fix certains mistakes (i have already said why TSCC pilot is not canon).


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Message edited by chrisdvanne - Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 02:14
 
kaoticDate: Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 02:18 | Message # 303
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Quote (chrisdvanne)
This is why she came in the past imo, to fix certains mistakes (i have already said why TSCC pilot is not canon).


Um, what? TSCC pilot is canon. It was shown on tv, written as the first episode by the creator the show. Lol, okay, I'm done discussing this... not gonna discuss something with someone that ignores what happened in the first episode. If the pilot isn't canon, you might as well throw everything out the window too.


Message edited by kaotic - Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 02:26
 
termi-ninja-torDate: Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 02:27 | Message # 304
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Quote (Blazius)
You and a considerable part of the TSCC community( as I see) wants to create a new story based on TSCC. Thats fine, non-canon "What if" scenarios are fun but they don't have much to do with the actual show since they are ignoring facts and elements of the show which are important.

That's really funny. I am laughing about this because I have exactly the same thought about you.

It just shows that we have different interpretations. It seems to me that you are unwilling to accept that the show supports multiple interpretations. You seem compelled to insist that your interpretation is "correct" and other interpretations are "wrong." I think that is a bit unreasonable, no?
 
chrisdvanneDate: Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 02:50 | Message # 305
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Quote (kaotic)
TSCC pilot is canon.

Have you ever heard the embarrassed explanations of Summer Glau Or Josh Friedman in order to justify why Cameron changed so much between the pilot and the other episodes; they said Cameron had to act like a normal girl in order to blend in in a high school and approach John without him guessing she was a Terminator, then she had no reason to act like this anymore, especially with the Connors. This is 100% BS.

I'm not sure of the schedule but the pilot was filmed 6 months before the show was greenlight by FOX. The pilot was a formatted for tv version of T1 and T2 and was entertaining enough to have the greenlight from the network; this was its purpose after all, seduce the network in order for the serie to be picked up. But the show itself took a completely different direction; even an important character like Derek was not introduced in the pilot.

This is why i say that the pilot is not canon; the only element on it that was used in the following episodes is Chromartie's head. The pilot allowed Firedman to free himself from the T3 timeline by jumping in the future, that was is whole purpose, storywise.


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Message edited by chrisdvanne - Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 02:51
 
BlaziusDate: Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 05:03 | Message # 306
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Quote (kaotic)
All that is canon is what is shown on the show.


Ok the why the hell do you ignore CANON lines and plot points from the show????

Quote (kaotic)
Doesn't matter if we're talking about a TV or book or the real world. The words "You did" and "I migh some day" are completely different. Their meaning is completely different.

I did: I have killed someone
I might some day: There's a chance I could kill someone.


So you've never heard about implicit meaning? Also you are completely ripping the words out of context which is incorrect when you try to determine their meanings in the show.

Quote (kaotic)
One, had Cameron went bad and killed Connor, she wouldn't have been able to go back in time. She would have been freaking destroyed by his men. They wouldn't have "fixed" her and sent her back. They would have destroyed her on the spot.


Actually no. Only Cameron saw him for a long time and Cam held the illusion that he is still alive. Once she couldn't keep up the illusion any longer she escaped very possibly with the help of the Third faction( which would also explain why she is involved with them too).

Quote (kaotic)
Two, if she went bad and killed Connor, how did she go back to normal? Remember in S&D she was still "bad" until the moment that she overrode her Skynet programming (which was the first time she'd done it because it's what cause her to have her problems).


I have no idea what you try to prove with this. Cam fixed herself in S&D.

How the hell do you know it was the first time she went bad? Because she wasn't twitching? She wasn't DAMAGED before either. She just went bad.

Quote (kaotic)
If Cameron went bad and killed Connor. His men would have killed her!
If Cameron went bad and killed Connor. She'd still be bad and under Skynets command.
If Cameron went bad she wouldn't go back in time to protect young John. She would have tried to kill him like in S&D.


Watch S&D first then.

Quote (kaotic)
It would be very unlikely. But no one is going to stop you from interpreting a couple lines of dialogue a certain way. It's your interpretation, but don't make posts acting like your views are the only ones that exist or that yours is the only one that's correct


Look, these are canon lines spoken in the very show we are talking about. They are corresponding with our theory but they are contradicting yours. Guess which is the better theory.

Quote (kaotic)
and this is also related to Cameron and Allison interrogation that Term was talking about.


That one again? Seriously watch that damned episode first. Do you seriously think that it makes sense that the Third faction captures, tortures and kills a member of the resistance( it was implied that Cam and her team killed multiple members BTW) so they can steal her identity and sneak into JCs camp to find him in order to...make peace?

And during the counselor scenes Cam said that she wanted to kill John Connor, thats why she interrogated poor Alison. That she worked for the Third faction by then is BS.

Quote (kaotic)
I still say there are too many hole in your theory. Look at post 297... I only listed a few, but I can think of a bunch more.


These are not holes (as I demonstrated), its only that you like ignoring things from the show so you can force your own story into it.

Quote (kaotic)
Um, what? TSCC pilot is canon. It was shown on tv, written as the first episode by the creator the show. Lol, okay, I'm done discussing this... not gonna discuss something with someone that ignores what happened in the first episode. If the pilot isn't canon, you might as well throw everything out the window too.


Ok, saying the entire episode is non-canon is a bit strong I agree. The episode was actually RETCONNED. Which means that everything you saw in that ep is overruled by later perfectly canon episodes. In later episodes it was questioned why Cam was sent back e.g the part that Cam was sent back to protect JC from Cromartie is NON-CANON.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
It just shows that we have different interpretations. It seems to me that you are unwilling to accept that the show supports multiple interpretations. You seem compelled to insist that your interpretation is "correct" and other interpretations are "wrong." I think that is a bit unreasonable, no?


I say again, you can interpret certain things differently especially since we are talking about an unfinished show but what you and a bunch of other fans are doing is ignoring major plot points, dialogue, and hints( roughly the half second season if not more) which WERE shown in the finished episodes so you can validate your pet theories which'd essentially turn TSCC into a straightforward anime style teenager love story.


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Message edited by Blazius - Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 05:11
 
kaoticDate: Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 10:34 | Message # 307
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I had this really big post but I deleted it because there is actually no point.

I see no point in having a discussion with someone that thinks that other people who have differing views are "ignoring" elements of the show. Termi-ninja-tor, it's been nice talking to you again. Chris, if you want to discuss anything TSCC related feel free to talk to me on Twitter.

ETA: Hey Nomad79. If you want to discuss this stuff you can find me here: http://tsccwiki.wetpaint.com/thread or http://tsccfans.freeforums.org or you can talk to me on Twitter (@kaotic2).


Message edited by kaotic - Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 11:45
 
Nomad79Date: Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 11:32 | Message # 308
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Hey Kaotic

Yeah Friedman did say part of the series was going to be a love story between John and Cameron. The pilot and born to run confirmed that, I m not going to argue with anyone over this but if u watch those episodes u can see that it was going to go that direction why the Hell would John jump into the future for her risking getting killed and jumping over his own existence, changing the future?

Why would Cameron allow John to manualy check her power cell to ensure if it was working correctly and according to Friedman she wanted to make John see she was a terminator and that he was not in love with a human girl. I don't why people went so ballistic over this when other sci-fi series have depicted a human male falling in love with a machine or vice versa?

And whatever happened in 2027 for Cameron was something she was probably trying to fix. Future John might've sent her back to protect her and left her to make the desicons on what to do when she did find him in the pilot.

And if you want to look at it from a canon point of view on the pilot why she no longer acted so human, Cameron probaly no longer that paticular set of emotions now that she found John. If I was John and this just happend to me...I'd be confused as Hell if this was Cameron just trying to act like a real girl for my benefit when I knew what her true nature is from past experiences from machines.

I think I'd rather have Cameron be her real self when around me and focused on the mission. Getting to know her better she would then develop her own set of quirks and emotions.

They proved in t2 and the books and comics that machines can learn they're own set of emotions and respond in kind. Why not the same for Cameron to grow into her own and dropping the preprogrammed ones and having her own self. Maybe being around future John did that for her and maybe or maybe not they were close but it's by being around the younger John she is able to love him as Summer said. Cameron's love for John never had to be sexual or based on physical attributes maybe just by being around him she felt that in her own way.

I saw nothing wrong with it after watching the series again as whole and seeing what was going on. It was just part of the story and TSCC had other plot lines running at the same time.

I would've liked to see a more evolved closeness between John and Cameron if we had a season three. But its left up to us as the fans to make our own stories of what would have happened.
 
wolverine13Date: Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 17:00 | Message # 309
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Quote (Nomad79)
I have no idea what you try to prove with this. Cam fixed herself in S&D.


fixed herself?she overwrite skynet command to kill john...she is not fixed by someone or her if you know what i mean(that's why the red eye in BtR)

Quote (Nomad79)
How the hell do you know it was the first time she went bad? Because she wasn't twitching? She wasn't DAMAGED before either. She just went bad.


how many times JF said that because of the overwriting started to have many problems with twitching etc. etc. etc. it was the first time that she went bad for me..and yes i believed she is reprogrammed but after the S&D she is not longer in reprogrammed mode!

Quote (Nomad79)
And if you want to look at it from a canon point of view on the pilot why she no longer acted so human, Cameron probaly no longer that paticular set of emotions now that she found John. If I was John and this just happend to me...I'd be confused as Hell if this was Cameron just trying to act like a real girl for my benefit when I knew what her true nature is from past experiences from machines.


this


Message edited by wolverine13 - Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 17:01
 
chrisdvanneDate: Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 17:12 | Message # 310
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Quote (kaotic)
Chris, if you want to discuss anything TSCC related feel free to talk to me on Twitter.

Anytime kaotic!


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termi-ninja-torDate: Sunday, 08 Jan 2012, 02:05 | Message # 311
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I believe that our John first met Cameron at high school in 1999 and later Cameron, John, and Sarah made the bank vault time jump to 2007. I also believe that Charlie Dixon learned about Sarah's past when he first met with Ellison and that Cromartie's head jumped to 2007 along with the Connors.

This means, for example, that I don't believe that John and Sarah first met Cameron in 2007.
 
chrisdvanneDate: Sunday, 08 Jan 2012, 02:32 | Message # 312
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at termi-ninja-tor :
Can you mention me a plot or story arc seen in TSCC that was introduced in the pilot? Like Derek and the resistance fighters send in the past, or Andy Good, or Kaliba or Weaver,...
Even the Cromartie seen in the pilot, played by Owain Yeoman, is not canon. LOL


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BlaziusDate: Sunday, 08 Jan 2012, 04:08 | Message # 313
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Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
I believe that our John first met Cameron at high school in 1999 and later Cameron, John, and Sarah made the bank vault time jump to 2007. I also believe that Charlie Dixon learned about Sarah's past when he first met with Ellison and that Cromartie's head jumped to 2007 along with the Connors.

This means, for example, that I don't believe that John and Sarah first met Cameron in 2007.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retcon

This is what happened with TSCCs pilot. Since the retconned episode is contradicted by later perfectly canon episodes the contradicted parts are changed on a "what you saw isn't what really happened" basis. It doesn't mean that the ep didn't happen or that the intact parts are not canon, but the episode is only PARTLY canon.


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termi-ninja-torDate: Sunday, 08 Jan 2012, 04:15 | Message # 314
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Quote (chrisdvanne)
at termi-ninja-tor :
Can you mention me a plot or story arc seen in TSCC that was introduced in the pilot? Like Derek and the resistance fighters send in the past, or Andy Good, or Kaliba or Weaver,...
Even the Cromartie seen in the pilot, played by Owain Yeoman, is not canon. LOL

Sure.

In the pilot, the Connors were being pursued by Cromartie. They escaped by making a time jump in the bank vault time machine. Cemeron set their destination year to be 2007 because she and Sarah agreed that they would try to stop Skynet at its earliest beginning. Cameron told Sarah that she did not know exactly how Skynet got its start, but she knew it was in the Los Angeles area in 2007.

After they arrived in 2007 and after the pilot episode, Sarah found Andy Goode with the help of Derek's team's photos and Tarissa Dyson's memory. Sarah destroyed the first Turk, which would have won the chess tournament and become Skynet, by burning Andy's house, but he made the Turk 2, which would have won the tournament also. But Weaver term eventually got Turk 2 and made it into John Henry.

So, I would say that the story arc of Sarah's initial attempt to destroy Skynet was introduced in the pilot.

Quote (chrisdvanne)
Even the Cromartie seen in the pilot, played by Owain Yeoman, is not canon. LOL

I think of Cromartie as a terminator with an endoskeleton who wears two different skins during the series. His first skin looked like Owain Yeoman but we saw that skin burned off in the bank vault. After the pilot, Cromartie is seen without any skin as he gets the blood scientist to help him reskin. After he visits the plastic surgeon, we see him skinned like George Laszlo, played by Garret Dillahunt. This is all quite consistent with what Cromartie is. There is no reason to consider his initial skinning as Owain Yeoman to be non-canon. Why would you consider it non-canon, just because it is in the pilot? Do you also choose to say that the bank vault time jump did not happen?

[edit add] If the bank vault time jump did not happen, then what would be the explanation for Cameron's presence in 2007 and being with the Connors. Without the pilot, we would not even know how they met. Also, without the bank vault time jump, we would have to assume that Sarah never died of cancer in 2005 -- did Cameron lie to her when she said Sarah would have died of cancer?


Message edited by termi-ninja-tor - Sunday, 08 Jan 2012, 04:22
 
termi-ninja-torDate: Sunday, 08 Jan 2012, 07:16 | Message # 315
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Quote (Blazius)
Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
I believe that our John first met Cameron at high school in 1999 and later Cameron, John, and Sarah made the bank vault time jump to 2007. I also believe that Charlie Dixon learned about Sarah's past when he first met with Ellison and that Cromartie's head jumped to 2007 along with the Connors.

This means, for example, that I don't believe that John and Sarah first met Cameron in 2007.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retcon

This is what happened with TSCCs pilot. Since the retconned episode is contradicted by later perfectly canon episodes the contradicted parts are changed on a "what you saw isn't what really happened" basis. It doesn't mean that the ep didn't happen or that the intact parts are not canon, but the episode is only PARTLY canon.

OK. So, which parts of the pilot do you consider canon and which parts are not canon?
 
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