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Summer-Glau.com Forum » Filmography » Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles » Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
BlaziusDate: Friday, 06 Jan 2012, 04:53 | Message # 286
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Quote (chrisdvanne)
Such things are not said at random and then forgotten for the rest of the serie; TSCC is a serialized show, which means the writers give hints of something to happen but the audience has not enough elements to know what it will be; then when the event come, the audience can connect it with previous elements given throughout the previous episodes.

My personal interpretation of the line "I might someday" is "i did"


Correct. Which is also why I say that the audience should not take everything at face value from the characters. Cameron is a main hero for example but she isn't a mindless exposition serving machine( pun was not intended with the machine part). In some shows like Star Trek( except DS9) the writer likes to hold your hand and have all knowing heroes who are helping you to understand whats going on.

But in TSCC characters are either cannot help you because they know only what you know too( or even less) or they are even trying to confuse you by lying. Cameron just happens to be the most notorious in that regard and especially in season 1 she is a pretty ambiguous character.


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termi-ninja-torDate: Friday, 06 Jan 2012, 05:23 | Message # 287
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Quote (Blazius)
But in TSCC characters are either cannot help you because they know only what you know too( or even less) or they are even trying to confuse you by lying.

You have to decide for yourself what to believe. Of course, sometimes she is telling the truth. You should not take the position that everything she says is a lie.

Accordingly, we all have to exercise some judgment in our interpretations. So our interpretations may disagree. Given the ambiguity of the show, there is often no concluding evidence to resolve the disagreements. That makes it inappropriate for you to say other interpretations are "wrong." At best, you are only in disagreement in an interpretation.
 
BlaziusDate: Friday, 06 Jan 2012, 05:43 | Message # 288
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Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
You have to decide for yourself what to believe. Of course, sometimes she is telling the truth. You should not take the position that everything she says is a lie.


Who said that she always lies? Its part of the game to collect the little pieces and determine when she says the truth.
But in the case of the Alison interrogation and in the case of her mission its damn sure she is lying since we have hints which we are supposed to collect. You'll never find irrefutable evidence until the big revelation, that'd spoil the fun, only hints which we have plenty.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
Accordingly, we all have to exercise some judgment in our interpretations. So our interpretations may disagree. Given the ambiguity of the show, there is often no concluding evidence to resolve the disagreements. That makes it inappropriate for you to say other interpretations are "wrong." At best, you are only in disagreement in an interpretation.


There is a difference between ambiguity and not proved but obviously true theories which you build from the hints and clues across the episodes.


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termi-ninja-torDate: Friday, 06 Jan 2012, 07:16 | Message # 289
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Quote (Blazius)
Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
You have to decide for yourself what to believe. Of course, sometimes she is telling the truth. You should not take the position that everything she says is a lie.


Who said that she always lies? Its part of the game to collect the little pieces and determine when she says the truth.
But in the case of the Alison interrogation and in the case of her mission its damn sure she is lying since we have hints which we are supposed to collect. You'll never find irrefutable evidence until the big revelation, that'd spoil the fun, only hints which we have plenty.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
Accordingly, we all have to exercise some judgment in our interpretations. So our interpretations may disagree. Given the ambiguity of the show, there is often no concluding evidence to resolve the disagreements. That makes it inappropriate for you to say other interpretations are "wrong." At best, you are only in disagreement in an interpretation.


There is a difference between ambiguity and not proved but obviously true theories which you build from the hints and clues across the episodes.

It seems you feel that your interpretation is "obviously true," but in fact, reasonable and intelligent observers may still disagree with you. To me, that means that your interpretation is not "obviously" true to all. No doubt you have convinced yourself, but it is inappropriate for you to assume that others must accept your view. We can have our own views, and you cannot force us to accept yours and you should not assume that we are necessarily "wrong."
 
chrisdvanneDate: Friday, 06 Jan 2012, 13:54 | Message # 290
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Quote (Blazius)
Its part of the game to collect the little pieces and determine when she says the truth.

Sorry if i repeat myself but this scene is one of the biggest hint that a dramatic event occured in the future, one that forced Cameron to come back imo :

S02 Ep01 'Automatic for the People':

Cameron : "You can't be thrusted anymore"
John : "Me, I can't be thrusted anymore"
Cameron : "You risked your life to fix me, that was a very dangerous thing to to. That could upset people"
John : "They'll have to deal with it"
Cameron : "Not them"

Cameron KNOWS the future, if she she says something like that it's because something similar HAPPENED in the future; this is basic storytelling, the writers hint at something and we learn about it later in the show , given the serie survives long enough on the network.
Same can be said about Cameron answering Derek saying he would never reveal informations about the resistance : "You did". Same when Cameron said "I might (kill you) some day" : in all those cases, saying "it could" or "i might" means "it happened" in the writers mouth. At least this is my interpretation.

I can't be 100% sure Cameron killed future JC but i'm 100% sure that a terrible event happened in the future that forced Cameron to come back; is it JC's death by a gone-bad Cameron or by the resistance pissed off to see Cameron's influence on him, is it mutinery, is it JC's being removed from commanding position because he risked his life for a machine (Cameron)...that is everyone's guess. I have given my interpretation.


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wolverine13Date: Friday, 06 Jan 2012, 16:01 | Message # 291
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Quote (chrisdvanne)

Cameron : "You can't be thrusted anymore"
John : "Me, I can't be thrusted anymore"
Cameron : "You risked your life to fix me, that was a very dangerous thing to to. That could upset people"
John : "They'll have to deal with it"
Cameron : "Not them"

Cameron KNOWS the future, if she she says something like that it's because something similar HAPPENED in the future; this is basic storytelling, the writers hint at something and we learn about it later in the show , given the serie survives long enough on the network.
Same can be said about Cameron answering Derek saying he would never reveal informations about the resistance : "You did". Same when Cameron said "I might (kill you) some day" : in all those cases, saying "it could" or "i might" means "it happened" in the writers mouth. At least this is my interpretation.


perhaps F.J.C. sent cameron back to protect her from them you could say....

But "You did" to "I migh some day" there is a big difference in the meanings of her words.... The first statement indicates that it has done before while the second it can be done in the future...

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)

It seems you feel that your interpretation is "obviously true," but in fact, reasonable and intelligent observers may still disagree with you. To me, that means that your interpretation is not "obviously" true to all. No doubt you have convinced yourself, but it is inappropriate for you to assume that others must accept your view. We can have our own views, and you cannot force us to accept yours and you should not assume that we are necessarily "wrong."


that's true
 
chrisdvanneDate: Friday, 06 Jan 2012, 16:17 | Message # 292
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Quote (wolverine13)
perhaps F.J.C. sent cameron back to protect her from them you could say....

I guess you mean protect cameron from resistance fighters like Dietz or Jesse who are upset against the machine; it could be a possibility but i think something happening to JC himself is a better dramatic resource.

Quote (wolverine13)
But "You did" to "I migh some day" there is a big difference in the meanings of her words.... The first statement indicates that it has done before while the second it can be done in the future...

This is how storytelling works on a tv show : something the character say or experienced by minor characters is foreshadowing what WILL happen in the future in a similar situation.


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BlaziusDate: Friday, 06 Jan 2012, 19:47 | Message # 293
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Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
It seems you feel that your interpretation is "obviously true," but in fact, reasonable and intelligent observers may still disagree with you. To me, that means that your interpretation is not "obviously" true to all. No doubt you have convinced yourself, but it is inappropriate for you to assume that others must accept your view. We can have our own views, and you cannot force us to accept yours and you should not assume that we are necessarily "wrong."


Friedman and the crew obviously took one path when they created the episodes. They left hints and used foreshadowing so we can suspect at least what will happen( or happened or happens). Since the show was cancelled we'll never know truly what the story was intended to be. However we can narrow down the possibilities using the clues we have. Thats what I and Chrisdvanne are trying to do. You and a considerable part of the TSCC community( as I see) wants to create a new story based on TSCC. Thats fine, non-canon "What if" scenarios are fun but they don't have much to do with the actual show since they are ignoring facts and elements of the show which are important.

Quote (wolverine13)
But "You did" to "I migh some day" there is a big difference in the meanings of her words.... The first statement indicates that it has done before while the second it can be done in the future...


We are talking about a TV show here. Those have different rules than the real word at least from the point of view of the audience.


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Nomad79Date: Friday, 06 Jan 2012, 21:54 | Message # 294
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I think a big clue to where something bad happened was where Sarah asked Cameron why did future John send her and Cameron said to protect him and stop skynet. Sarah said something like John sent her away from him for some reason and her hand began to tremble, maybe she did kill him or attempted it.
 
wolverine13Date: Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 00:55 | Message # 295
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Quote (Nomad79)
Sarah said something like John sent her away from him for some reason and her hand began to tremble, maybe she did kill him or attempted it.


no her hand began to tremble before sarah ask cameron if john sent her away for some reason!

Quote (Blazius)
You and a considerable part of the TSCC community( as I see) wants to create a new story based on TSCC.


a new story? i don't agree with this and i don't see that,perhaps you do!!!anyway!


Message edited by wolverine13 - Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 00:56
 
kaoticDate: Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 01:07 | Message # 296
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Quote (Blazius)
You and a considerable part of the TSCC community( as I see) wants to create a new story based on TSCC. Thats fine, non-canon "What if" scenarios are fun but they don't have much to do with the actual show since they are ignoring facts and elements of the show which are important


That is complete BS! No one is trying to do that. You are saying that anyone that doesn't have the same interpretation of what happened, is somehow ignoring all the fact. That's the most ridiculous thing I've heard from anyone in the tscc community in a long time. Your view of the story IS NOT the correct one.... in fact there are no correct interpretations. Josh Friedman even said on Twitter that it's up to every single viewer to interpret the show and the character in their own way. Everything you've said here is "what ifs," everything we've all said here is "what ifs". Your entire theory is non canon until there is proof to back it up. All that is canon is what is shown on the show.
Josh Friedman wanted the show to be interpreted anyway we want. There are no: this is how it is.

Quote
We are talking about a TV show here. Those have different rules than the real word at least from the point of view of the audience.


Doesn't matter if we're talking about a TV or book or the real world. The words "You did" and "I migh some day" are completely different. Their meaning is completely different.

I did: I have killed someone
I might some day: There's a chance I could kill someone.


Message edited by kaotic - Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 02:31
 
kaoticDate: Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 01:30 | Message # 297
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You guys can interpret any small piece of dialogue anyway you want but there are some really big freaking holes in your theory.

One, had Cameron went bad and killed Connor, she wouldn't have been able to go back in time. She would have been freaking destroyed by his men. They wouldn't have "fixed" her and sent her back. They would have destroyed her on the spot.

Two, if she went bad and killed Connor, how did she go back to normal? Remember in S&D she was still "bad" until the moment that she overrode her Skynet programming (which was the first time she'd done it because it's what cause her to have her problems).

If Cameron went bad and killed Connor. His men would have killed her!
If Cameron went bad and killed Connor. She'd still be bad and under Skynets command.
If Cameron went bad she wouldn't go back in time to protect young John. She would have tried to kill him like in S&D.

Did John die in the future, quite possibly, but did Cameron do it? It would be very unlikely. But no one is going to stop you from interpreting a couple lines of dialogue a certain way. It's your interpretation, but don't make posts acting like your views are the only ones that exist or that yours is the only one that's correct and this is also related to Cameron and Allison interrogation that Term was talking about.


Message edited by kaotic - Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 01:33
 
chrisdvanneDate: Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 01:44 | Message # 298
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Quote (kaotic)
There are no: this is how it is.

Could you at least aknowledge that i base my own subjective interpretation from lines prononced in the show; i'm not a writer, i have no imagination but i have enough brain capacity to deduce things from hints given throughout the show. I don't deny the right to everyone to have his own interpretation and to have a different interpretation from mine.

Quote (kaotic)
Doesn't matter if we're talking about a TV or book or the real world. The words "You did" and "I migh some day" are completely different. Their meaning is completely different.

I did: I have killed someone
I might some day: There's a chance I could kill someone.

This is grammatically and rhetoricically correct but in the case of TSCC, this is completely wrong and i will tell you why :

Because Cameron KNOWS the future

When she says "i might kill you in the future", the "chance" for it to be true is multiplicated by a 100 factor, could you understand that.
Same can be said about her line "That could upset people"; the "could" in that sentence means "will" because she knows a part of the resistance (as shown by Dietz, Jesse, Derek behaviour) is mad at John Connor for having machines in every base.

Cameron knows it and the audience knows it too because the audience saw the scenes in TSCC that occured in the future (flashbacks set in the future), this is why we have every right to deduce things from hints given by the writers.


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Message edited by chrisdvanne - Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 01:52
 
kaoticDate: Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 01:56 | Message # 299
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This is grammatically and rhetoricically correct but in the case of TSCC, this is completely wrong and i will tell you why :


It's not wrong to me.

Quote (chrisdvanne)
Because Cameron KNOWS the future


Okay... why does that matter? She only knows the future she came from. She doesn't know if she'll hurt John again or what will happen in the future. Everything she's experiencing is completely new now. It will lead to a completely new future. Again, "I might" have does not equal "I did" in any world, tv show, or book.

ETA:

Quote
Could you at least aknowledge that i base my own subjective interpretation from lines prononced in the show;


I did.

edited.


Message edited by kaotic - Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 02:15
 
chrisdvanneDate: Saturday, 07 Jan 2012, 02:03 | Message # 300
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Quote (kaotic)
She doesn't know that she'll hurt John again.

That's the point!
She doesn't know what the future they're writing will be but she knows how the future she came from was; she knows a fraction of the resistance doesn't like pet machines and that they "are" upset : i repeat, in this case the "that could upset people" means "it upset people". Following the same reasoning for the "i might kill you some day" is not nonsense. This is maybe not the right interpretation but it makes sense.

The fact that she knows the future (she came from) changes every rules of grammatic; this is fact.


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