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Summer-Glau.com Forum » Filmography » Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles » Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
termi-ninja-torDate: Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 16:11 | Message # 241
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Quote (Blazius)
But if the TDE is just an escape route why not going into the past instead of the future?

I always had the impression that Weaver term and John Henry chose to jump into the future because they knew they had friends and resources there to command. It would be better for them than just the two of them trying to find and destroy Kaliba AI in the past.

Quote (Blazius)
if proto-Skynet nukes LA then it'll reveal itself too soon blowing the element of surprise which made JD even possible.

But Kaliba AI might decide that it would be worth it to destroy Weaver term, John Henry, John Connor, and Sarah all in one blow. Kaliba AI has already partially revealed itself with the aerial HK attack. And it would not have to be a nuke -- Kaliba AI could use a large conventional bomb or an EMP. Weaver term and John Henry don't know what resources it has and the risk is too great to stay.

Quote (Blazius)
Cameron knew she'll give the chip to JH in the moment Elison asked the question. She hardly ever knew about the attack at all meaning that the plan was to travel into the future regardless of what Kaliba is doing. Cameron was in an unwindowed basement and JH told her nothing about imminent dangers. She just gave him the chip as it was planned a long time ago at the moment it was planned she will do it. Why it was a spontaneous decision then?

I agree that Cameron knew she'll give the chip as soon as Ellison spoke the question. But obviously neither Cameron nor John Henry expected to need to jump to the future right away at the time that Ellison spoke. Their need to jump to the future right away did not develop until Kaliba AI attacked the Zeira building. Otherwise, they might have stayed in the present for some time.

Quote (Blazius)
How did Sarah and John ended up in the basement then?

After Weaver term explained to Sarah that the attackers were trying to kill John Henry and that John Henry would be important to winning the war against Skynet, Sarah must have decided to go to the basement to help protect John Henry, or to tell Cameron to delay destroying him. (Sarah thought Cameron went to the basement to destroy John Henry.) This would have been Sarah's choice, not a command from Weaver term. Weaver term was only focused on getting to the basement herself with Ellison.

Quote (Blazius)
And let John be killed in the dangerous war torn future where people don't even know about his importance and would even conscript him to die in the front lines just to let him follow the call of his hearth?

We don't know what the war situation is in the BtR future. John might not be in such great danger. It is even possible that Weaver term decided she would protect John while he was in the future.

Quote (Blazius)
Also he was erased from even the Third factions memory too, so only Weaver would know about him. Others won't even let him near the TDE.

It would be easy enough for Weaver term to inform her Third Faction of John's importance and allow him access to their TDE.

Quote (Blazius)
Also, nobody jumps without a plan and risks messing up the timeline in a real bad way( except Jesse but Weaver should not be that stupid)

Actually, Jesse did have a plan. And John seemed to have jumped without a plan -- all he had was a desire to restore Cameron's chip.

Quote (Blazius)
No, in my theory I suggested that JH actually has the means to leave the room without the chip and he just grabs it to lure John into the TDE.

There is no indication in the show that John Henry could leave the room without Cameron's chip. John Henry resided inside the Zeira computers in the basement. He was able to manipulate the Cromartie body through a cable link in the back of the body's head. The body did not have the necessary chip to contain an AI program like John Henry, so John Henry could not live inside Cromartie's body without a chip.

Are you thinking that John Henry could use Cromartie's body to pick up the Zeira computers and carry them out?

Quote (Blazius)
Why would Skynet waste resources on making Camerons chip capable of holding two programs? Its was designed to hold a personalityless Cameron automaton but given its super advanced nature and to allow learning it could contain a much more complex and sentient Cameron but two such advanced programs seems a bit too much to me.

The world is full of examples of excess capacity. A human uses only a fraction of his brain for living (as explored in the movie "Limitless"). Most Microsoft Excel users never use more than a small fraction of the available spreadsheet. I have never driven my car at its full speed capability. The CPU in my computer is almost never working at full utilization. My hard drive is less than half full. etc.

Quote (Blazius)
I also always thought its just exaggeration made by an overenthusiastic boy( who would he know how big is a human personality or whatnot exactly?).

Xander Akagi was supposed to be a smart computer designer. I never thought he was so young as to be called a "boy." He was a young man apparently in his twenties (although I agree that it is hard to guess age with Asians).

It is possible to estimate the capacity of animal brains. Like we know a human brain can hold more than a mouse brain. We know the capacity of the human brain. I thought Xander was comparing the capacity of a CPU chip with the capacity of the human brain. The chip he was describing sounded like it had a capacity greater than or equal to the capacity of the human brain.

And that chip was supposed to be either currently available or only one or two generations beyond the current state of the art. Again, Cameron's chip is many generations beyond such a chip, so I have no problem believing that Cameron's chip could hold more than one personality.


Message edited by termi-ninja-tor - Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 18:00
 
BlaziusDate: Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 18:33 | Message # 242
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Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
I always had the impression that Weaver term and John Henry chose to jump into the future because they knew they had friends and resources there to command. It would be better for them than just the two of them trying to find and destroy Kaliba AI in the past.


Ok then why didn't he Third faction build JH in the future without any kind of jumping around?

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
But Kaliba AI might decide that it would be worth it to destroy Weaver term, John Henry, John Connor, and Sarah all in one blow. Kaliba AI has already partially revealed itself with the aerial HK attack. And it would not have to be a nuke -- Kaliba AI could use a large conventional bomb or an EMP. Weaver term and John Henry don't know what resources it has and the risk is too great to stay.


Nothing worths more than JD. If the government figures out what Skynet is planning prematurely and shuts it down then he is already lost.

Crashing a small plane( the HK is very small, it only destroyed one room and it was clearly aimed to assasinate Weaver meaning that both Skynets had absolutey no idea that Weaver was a LMT just like water delivery guy BTW) into a Skyscraper is one thing, blowing it up with rockets is another. And remember that JH was in the basment which actually seemed like a well protected area from bombardment anyway.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
I agree that Cameron knew she'll give the chip as soon as Ellison spoke the question. But obviously neither Cameron nor John Henry expected to need to jump to the future at the time that Ellison spoke. Their need to jump to the future right away did not develop until Kaliba AI attacked the Zeira building. Otherwise, they might have stayed in the present for some time.


Thats actually hard to believe. She clearly orchestrated the meeting to be more or less at that moment when she wanted to make the jump using Elison.

Weaver mentions like a million times that she wants to meet with John and Cameron and she urges Elison to find a way.

Then lets not forget the fact that Cameron gives the chip to JH way BEFORE any sign of attack, and we see the whole scene.

JH tells her nothing about any kind of attack and the screens are all blank. He takes the chip before the attack. Then in the next scene he is nowhere to be found. Taking the chip but not leaving doesn't make sense.

The only surprise in Weavers plans was the HK attack but it only made her finish the dialogue quicker, it didn't have any impact on her plans.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
After Weaver term explained to Sarah that the attackers were trying to kill John Henry and that John Henry would be important to winning the war against Skynet, Sarah must have decided to go to the basement to help protect John Henry, or to tell Cameron to delay destroying him. (Sarah thought Cameron went to the basement to destroy John Henry.) This would have been Sarah's choice, not a command from Weaver term. Weaver term was only focused on getting to the basement herself with Ellison.


She said that obviously. Sarah is not Elison who she can order around, she had to lure John and Sarah there. And doing that by telling Sarah that "I'm going to bring your son to a nice trip into the post apocalyptic future is not a good way to do that IMO.


Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
We don't know what the war situation is in the BtR future. John might not be in such great danger. It is even possible that Weaver term decided she would protect John while he was in the future.


Weaver had no way to know that since she created a brand new timeline. So if she knew that John could remain in relative safety vs. the uncertainty and a possibly very dangerous future the best choice would be to not let John jumping around needlessly. And definitely not making him jump. Unless Weaver knows that anything is better than to stay in the past.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
It would be easy enough for Weaver term to inform her Third Faction of John's importance and allow him access to their TDE.


Assuming that TDEs even exist in that future and the Third faction has one, and that they'd believe to Weaver and the Third faction even exists in that specific future.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
Actually, Jesse did have a plan. And John seemed to have jumped without a plan -- all he had was a desire to restore Cameron's chip.


John jumped because that was Weavers plan using that desire to achieve her goal.

Jesses plan makes sense indeed, but then we need to assume that Cameron killed future John( thats a good theory so why not?)

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
There is no indication in the show that John Henry could leave the room without Cameron's chip. John Henry resided inside the Zeira computers in the basement. He was able to manipulate the Cromartie body through a cable link in the back of the body's head. The body did not have the necessary chip to contain an AI program like John Henry, so John Henry could not live inside Cromartie's body without a chip.

Are you thinking that John Henry could use Cromartie's body to pick up the Zeira computers and carry them out?


They had million ways to acquire a chip from other sources. Send back a Third faction T-600 and use his chip. Or steal a Skynet aligned one who is just hunting a target before Skynet develops his "copy protecion", there should be plenty of them still wandering around.

Also where should I put Mr. Murchs lines about that JH only exists in Zeiras exactly same "software and hardware environment" BTW ? That was also a bit strange knowing the end of the episode.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
The world is full of examples of excess capacity. A human uses only a fraction of his brain for living (as explored in the movie "Limitless"). Most Microsoft Excel users never use more than a small fraction of the available spreadsheet. I have never driven my car at its full speed capability. The CPU in my computer is almost never working at full utilization. My hard drive is less than half full. etc.


Which excess capacity Cameron is already likely using up with her overly complex and sophisticated program and unusually large quantity of memories. She was only designed to learn to act as Alison, and things required for seamless infiltration. She wasn't designed to even survive her only mission most likely, given that after she kills John she would have been killed by his troops on the spot.

However she developed to the level close to JH and Skynet instead. I wouldn't be even surprised if half of her glitches were actually caused by the fact that her chip is struggling with running her too complex program.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
It is possible to estimate the capacity of animal brains. Like we know a human brain can hold more than a mouse brain. We know the capacity of the human brain. I thought Xander was comparing the capacity of a CPU chip with the capacity of the human brain. The chip he was describing sounded like it had a capacity greater than or equal to the capacity of the human brain.


How many HDD you'd need to contain a human personality just comparately? Or how fast CPU you'd need to run it properly?

BTW where are the transcripts for TSCC? One time they were on the Wiki pages for the episodes too but they are not there anymore.


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termi-ninja-torDate: Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 22:05 | Message # 243
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Quote (Blazius)
Ok then why didn't he Third faction build JH in the future without any kind of jumping around?

John Henry started as Turk 2, built by Andy Goode. Weaver term acquired Turk 2 via Dmitri, Sarkissian, and Walsh. Without Weaver's jump back and actions to acquire Turk 2, Turk 2 would have won the chess tournament and been taken by the Air Force, installed in the military computer system, and become Skynet, causing Judgment Day. It was from this future that Weaver term jumped back. Preventing Turk 2 from becoming Skynet was a key element in her mission. (Unfortunately, Kaliba AI seemed to have taken Turk 2's place as the would-be exterminator of humanity.) Another important aspect was to create a human-friendly AI out of Turk 2.

Quote (Blazius)
Nothing worths more than JD. If the government figures out what Skynet is planning prematurely and shuts it down then he is already lost.

Kaliba AI is not installed in the military computers as a Skynet. Kaliba AI is a rogue program that was developed separately from the Turks, and it was never taken by the Air Force. Kaliba AI has installed back door worms in many computers around the world, including the military industrial complex computers with the help of old Fischer. It would be hard for the government to find it and shut it down.

Quote (Blazius)
She clearly orchestrated the meeting to be more or less at that moment when she wanted to make the jump using Elison.

Weaver mentions like a million times that she wants to meet with John and Cameron and she urges Elison to find a way.

Weaver did not choose the time of their meeting. When Ellison spoke the question, Sarah was still in jail. John and Cameron had to break her out of jail. And I don't think they would have been interested in meeting Weaver before John found out about John Henry from Savannah. The timing of their arrival at the Zeira Corp building was dependent on many variables, most of them controlled by the Connors. I do not see Weaver term as having "orchestrated the meeting to be more or less at that moment" of her choice. Weaver had very little influence over the precise timing of their meeting.

Quote (Blazius)
Then lets not forget the fact that Cameron gives the chip to JH way BEFORE any sign of attack, and we see the whole scene.

Yes, I agree that Cameron had decided to give up her chip when Ellison spoke the question. But what about the time jump? The timing of the time jump was driven by the attack from Kaliba AI. John Henry was lucky that Cameron had just arrived to give him her chip, and that allowed him to escape the basement. And clearly John Henry could have learned of the attack many ways. Remember he had complete surveillance in the Zeira building, and he could have been informed by Weaver term via their wireless communications link.

Quote (Blazius)
She said that obviously. Sarah is not Elison who she can order around, she had to lure John and Sarah there. And doing that by telling Sarah that "I'm going to bring your son to a nice trip into the post apocalyptic future is not a good way to do that IMO.

Weaver term was only responding to Sarah's statement that they were trying to kill John Connor. This was a normal response when Sarah says something that is incorrect -- Weaver term was only correcting her misperception. If Sarah had not spoken, then
Weaver term would not need to explain and Sarah could have run out of the building with John. It did not at all appear to me that Weaver term was trying to lure Sarah to the basement.

Quote (Blazius)
if she knew that John could remain in relative safety vs. the uncertainty and a possibly very dangerous future the best choice would be to not let John jumping around needlessly.

John's jump was John's choice. He could have backed out of the time sphere if he wanted, especially after Sarah refused to go. My impression was that Weaver did not particularly care what John did -- she had decided that she herself would leave, and he could come along for the ride if he wanted (or not). She never had a plan to lure him into the future.

Quote (Blazius)
Assuming that TDEs even exist in that future and the Third faction has one

Weaver term apparently knows how to build one herself. She built the TDE in the Zeira basement. There is no doubt that she will have access to a TDE in the future since she can build one herself if none currently exist.

Quote (Blazius)
Jesses plan makes sense indeed, but then we need to assume that Cameron killed future John( thats a good theory so why not?)

We've already discussed this speculation at length. I will repeat that I don't agree that Cameron killed future John, but I do not want to rekindle this particular debate. I don't think this point is particularly key to our current discussion. -- Pass

Quote (Blazius)
They had million ways to acquire a chip from other sources. Send back a Third faction T-600 and use his chip. Or steal a Skynet aligned one who is just hunting a target before Skynet develops his "copy protecion", there should be plenty of them still wandering around.

There is nothing in the episodes to support the ideas that the Third Faction had sent back anybody else or that they could easily find and capture a terminator with a non-self-destructing chip. Sure, anything could have happened, but I would prefer to stick with what was given to us in the show -- like, I could say that aliens from Mars landed and handed Weaver term a chip that would work in the Cromartie body; this was not explicitly excluded so can't we assume that it has happened? Of course I would not.

Quote (Blazius)
Also where should I put Mr. Murchs lines about that JH only exists in Zeiras exactly same "software and hardware environment" BTW ? That was also a bit strange knowing the end of the episode.

I interpreted Murch's comment as telling us that they cannot move John Henry from the basement because they cannot move his hardware. To me, that meant that any relocation of John Henry would require technology beyond what Zeira can do. So swapping him whole into a chip from the future would be the only way to move him intact.

Quote (Blazius)
Which excess capacity Cameron is already likely using up with her overly complex and sophisticated program and unusually large quantity of memories. She was only designed to learn to act as Alison, and things required for seamless infiltration. She wasn't designed to even survive her only mission most likely, given that after she kills John she would have been killed by his troops on the spot.

It is highly speculative to try to guess how much of Cameron's chip is being occupied by her personality. Her chip is likely evolved far beyond the chip that Xander referred to that could rival a human brain. Her chip might be able to handle many times more than just one human personality. It is unlikely that she would be close to maxing out her chip's capacity. There should be lots of room for adding John Henry onto it.

Quote (Blazius)
How many HDD you'd need to contain a human personality just comparately? Or how fast CPU you'd need to run it properly?

I do remember reading about this a few years ago. If you insist, I will spend the time and look this up for you and post the links. Or, if you want, you could find it yourself -- the research exists.

You can find the transcripts on the Red Wiki using the search box. Here's the link to the transcript of Born to Run:
http://www.sarahconnorfans.com/page....+to+Run
(Thank you member Charley Dixon for your good work completing these transcripts.)
 
BlaziusDate: Wednesday, 21 Dec 2011, 14:48 | Message # 244
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Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
John Henry started as Turk 2, built by Andy Goode. Weaver term acquired Turk 2 via Dmitri, Sarkissian, and Walsh. Without Weaver's jump back and actions to acquire Turk 2, Turk 2 would have won the chess tournament and been taken by the Air Force, installed in the military computer system, and become Skynet, causing Judgment Day. It was from this future that Weaver term jumped back. Preventing Turk 2 from becoming Skynet was a key element in her mission. (Unfortunately, Kaliba AI seemed to have taken Turk 2's place as the would-be exterminator of humanity.) Another important aspect was to create a human-friendly AI out of Turk 2.


Thats true, however if Weaver has more friends and most importantly more resources in the future then it'd make sense to jump there as soon as she gets the Turk, no? Moreover resources in the future always seemed scarce to me.

Cameron said for example that coltan will be rare in the future and thats why Weaver and Skynet are stockpiling it in their bunkers. Moreover JD was a serious blow for the infrastructure and to manpower and what little remained is prominently controlled by Skynet. Also while Weaver has friends in the future, in the past Skynet still can't mount that large assault against her because he needs to keep somewhat low profile. In the future he'll fight with all available weapons. So I think if she wanted to just escape, she'd better choose to jump back, not forward. Unless she finished with her mission and it was time to get back to the future for the next phase.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
Kaliba AI is not installed in the military computers as a Skynet. Kaliba AI is a rogue program that was developed separately from the Turks, and it was never taken by the Air Force. Kaliba AI has installed back door worms in many computers around the world, including the military industrial complex computers with the help of old Fischer. It would be hard for the government to find it and shut it down.


Unless it starts to bomb LA or even send a tactical missile from a Kaliba facility. If there is an all out investigation with FBI, the army and IDK who else gets involved in serious terrorist threats then they may find the AI and shut it down eventually. Kaliba couldn't even hide it in another facility since its not more mobile than JH presumably.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
Weaver did not choose the time of their meeting. When Ellison spoke the question, Sarah was still in jail. John and Cameron had to break her out of jail. And I don't think they would have been interested in meeting Weaver before John found out about John Henry from Savannah. The timing of their arrival at the Zeira Corp building was dependent on many variables, most of them controlled by the Connors. I do not see Weaver term as having "orchestrated the meeting to be more or less at that moment" of her choice. Weaver had very little influence over the precise timing of their meeting.


Of course she chose it. Not precisely like "I'm supposed to meet them at 14:30" but its clear that her plan reached the phase when she decided to meet with John and Cameron( Sarah was irrelevant to her, other than as somebody who could bring John and Cameron to her).

John and Cameron had absolutely no intention to go to her, and Cameron didn't want to rescue Sarah ever. Weaver knew this so in order to get her meeting she played the " Will you join us?" card using Elison. She knew that Cameron would then make sure that they meet Weaver at Zeira Corp. Then Cameron also knew that John will go nowhere without Sarah so she agreed to bust her out more so because everybody knew that Sarah will lead the team to Zeira Corp. Then Weaver got John and JH got Camerons chip as planned so they all can finally perform the jump.

Don't know about the Savannah thing but its clear if she doesn't reveal JH and the Weaver faction to the team, Weaver would have found a way to do it herself. I grant that Skynet certainly made her accelerate her plan but that doesn't mean she didn't have a plan at all.


Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
Yes, I agree that Cameron had decided to give up her chip when Ellison spoke the question. But what about the time jump? The timing of the time jump was driven by the attack from Kaliba AI. John Henry was lucky that Cameron had just arrived to give him her chip, and that allowed him to escape the basement. And clearly John Henry could have learned of the attack many ways. Remember he had complete surveillance in the Zeira building, and he could have been informed by Weaver term via their wireless communications link.


The time jump? if you watch the scenes in chronological order the scene when Cameron gives JH the chip is before the scene when Sarah and John meets Weaver. There is no sign of attack when Cameron gives JH the chip at all and JH never tells Cameron anything only a "Hello" and that "I know you"

Cameron then spontaneously gives JH her chip as it was planned.

There is no reason to believe that Weaver just planned to get her chip and then wait months before jumping. You forget that Weaver couldn't use Cameron just as a spare part source since she obviously knew about Johns relationship with Cameron. It doesn't make sense to piss off John more than necessary, even getting the chip for that time period which was required for the jump( for whatever reason, it doesn't matter here) was an inconvenient choice.

No, she got the chip because she needed it at that exact moment. So she planned to perform the jump at that moment. The attack by the HK had little to do with it other than giving another reason to do it as soon as possible maybe.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
Weaver term was only responding to Sarah's statement that they were trying to kill John Connor. This was a normal response when Sarah says something that is incorrect -- Weaver term was only correcting her misperception. If Sarah had not spoken, then
Weaver term would not need to explain and Sarah could have run out of the building with John. It did not at all appear to me that Weaver term was trying to lure Sarah to the basement.


Its clear that she wanted to meet them for a reason before the HK attack. Plus if she doesn't want Sarah and John around and she wants them to get out of the building then she just tells them that "Yeah, JC is in danger, hurry you must escape, we have a chopper on top of the building" and she wont start to preach about how important is JH.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
John's jump was John's choice. He could have backed out of the time sphere if he wanted, especially after Sarah refused to go. My impression was that Weaver did not particularly care what John did -- she had decided that she herself would leave, and he could come along for the ride if he wanted (or not). She never had a plan to lure him into the future.


You forget that Weaver caused him to want to go to the future by taking Cameron to the future. Weaver knew this. She also knew that JC "will save the world" e.g. he was the most important human on Earth. Now that Weaver intentionally messed up the timeline by removing that human without any kind of plan, on a "I don't care what the hell will happen" basis seems a bit absurd. Nobody removes anybody from the timeline without a good reason. Let alone JC himself.


Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
Weaver term apparently knows how to build one herself. She built the TDE in the Zeira basement. There is no doubt that she will have access to a TDE in the future since she can build one herself if none currently exist.


Or she asked an engineer who was sent back like the one who built the TDE in the bank vault.

Or even if she can build one she doesn't know about the situation in the future. Maybe she won't have resources to build one. Or John gets incinerated the moment they arrive by Skynet forces.


Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
We've already discussed this speculation at length. I will repeat that I don't agree that Cameron killed future John, but I do not want to rekindle this particular debate. I don't think this point is particularly key to our current discussion. -- Pass


I agree, drop this then.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
There is nothing in the episodes to support the ideas that the Third Faction had sent back anybody else or that they could easily find and capture a terminator with a non-self-destructing chip. Sure, anything could have happened, but I would prefer to stick with what was given to us in the show -- like, I could say that aliens from Mars landed and handed Weaver term a chip that would work in the Cromartie body; this was not explicitly excluded so can't we assume that it has happened? Of course I would not.


Still, if I'd be Weaver I'd only mess with the protector and love interest of my messiah if I absolutely have no other option. Especially if that'd mean drastically complicating my plans and multiply my risk factors. Unless I has to do it. Also I think from a storytelling POV that'd be more interesting that Cam was chosen because she is important and not because she is just the nearest spare part source for JH. Also John is just an inconvenience in Weavers equation? Doesn't sound that good IMO.


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BlaziusDate: Wednesday, 21 Dec 2011, 14:49 | Message # 245
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Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
I interpreted Murch's comment as telling us that they cannot move John Henry from the basement because they cannot move his hardware. To me, that meant that any relocation of John Henry would require technology beyond what Zeira can do. So swapping him whole into a chip from the future would be the only way to move him intact.


That is reasonable I agree. It indicates that JH needs future tech to leave. It still doesn't prove anything.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
It is highly speculative to try to guess how much of Cameron's chip is being occupied by her personality. Her chip is likely evolved far beyond the chip that Xander referred to that could rival a human brain. Her chip might be able to handle many times more than just one human personality. It is unlikely that she would be close to maxing out her chip's capacity. There should be lots of room for adding John Henry onto it.


Highly speculative I agree.

Unlikely? She wasn't designed to contain that many personalities. She wasn't even designed to contain one fully fledged personality. The fact that Skynet could produce chips with gigantic capacity doesn't mean he will put that into an assassin robot. He likely uses that tech himself but he wouldn't put that in Cameron.


Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
I do remember reading about this a few years ago. If you insist, I will spend the time and look this up for you and post the links. Or, if you want, you could find it yourself -- the research exists.


Not that'd be not necessary. It doesn't even have much to do with our current discussion. I'd rather put such research in the Tech Thread instead.


Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
You can find the transcripts on the Red Wiki using the search box. Here's the link to the transcript of Born to Run:
http://www.sarahconnorfans.com/page....+to+Run
(Thank you member Charley Dixon for your good work completing these transcripts.)


Thanks! I searched for these since Fermi removed them from the Wiki.


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Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
ChrisDate: Wednesday, 21 Dec 2011, 22:47 | Message # 246
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I haven't read all the replies but has anyone thought that John needed to go to the future to make up for 8 years of lost training when they jumped forward in time?

It is most likely that Cameron is either on the Zeira Corp mainframe or sharing the chip with John Henry, either way in order for John to save her he needed to get the chip back. Weaver was already talking about moving John Henry before the drone attack happened, the story lines merged with Cameron giving her chip to John Henry and he took it into the future which we don't know why he jumped there except for him to learn about what his brother does in the future.

Weaver wasn't bothered about John jumping into the future with her as it was most likely the plan to return, it also shows that John cared enough about Cameron to risk his life for her like he would do for any other person.

If Weaver didn't abandon John when the patrols came what would have happened? Remember there was a dog there, John being unknown put him in enough danger already without being found with a terminator standing along side him, sure Weaver could have killed them all but that would defeat the purpose of John Connor being there to learn at the same time as John Henry does.

Please disregard anything I said if someone else already mentioned it.
 
termi-ninja-torDate: Thursday, 22 Dec 2011, 09:39 | Message # 247
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@Blazius

Well, I sense that you hold your beliefs strongly, and I doubt that I will be able to sway your opinions about Weaver term and her plans.

I appreciate your explanations, and you have made me review and reconsider all my interpretations about the last half of Born to Run. I acknowledge that your views constitute a consistent interpretation about what happened.

Rather than review your posts line-by-line, let me just lay out what I currently believe.

1) Weaver term's original mission was to stop the Skynet of her own future (which had developed from Turk 2) from developing into Skynet. (This is somewhat in parallel to Cameron putting Sarah into a position to destroy the first Turk, which had become the Skynet of Cameron's future.)

2) Weaver term's additional mission was to develop the precursor to Skynet (Turk 2) into a human-friendly AI which might be used in the future by the Third Faction against Skynet. She was supposed to bring this AI back to the future after she developed it in the current time.

3) Cameron was originally made as a terminator by Skynet (as all terminators were), then she developed until she made the decision to join the Third Faction. She got skinned as Allison to infiltrate John Connor's camp acting as a Third Faction agent. (She even told this to Allison, although Allison did not believe her.) She got caught and reprogrammed by the Resistance, including a memory wipe. But the memory wipe was not permanently effective and she eventually remembered a lot of stuff, like she remembered Allison in Allison from Palmdale, and she remembered her allegiances to the Third Faction.

4) At first, Weaver term did not know that Sarah was still alive, did not know where John Connor might be, and did not know about Cameron's presence in the present time. But Weaver term learned of their existence, and wanted Cameron to come to Zeira Corp to get her chip so John Henry could jump to the future. So she sent Ellison to speak the question to Cameron.

5) After Cameron gave her chip to John Henry, John Henry put the chip into the head of Cromartie's body and transferred himself onto the chip, after which both John Henry and Cameron were on Cameron's chip. (I am assuming the chip had the capacity to host both personalities.)

6) At the point that John Henry got Cameron's chip, he had already developed sufficiently to be ready to jump into the future and begin his fight against Skynet there. So he jumped to the future shortly after he got the chip. He could have stayed and developed further, except that the attack on Zeira by Kaliba AI forced his timing.

7) Weaver term had no interest in John Connor's accompanying her or not in her time jump to the future. She always seemed more interested in supporting John Henry than caring about any humans. She wanted Ellison to accompany her because his presence might be helpful to John Henry's further development. Her immediate goal that day was to jump to the future and join up with John Henry to work together against Skynet. If John Connor felt strongly about coming along, she would not stop him. Perhaps she felt that he would always have a chance to jump back at some point. thereby reversing any effects of his absence.

Blazius, I know you hold a more elaborate view of Weaver term's motivations and interpret her actions as designed to lure John Connor into the future with her. And you have thought of at least one explanation for such intentions. I do not interpret what we saw in the show in the same way.

Our disagreement pivots upon fairly subjective interpretations of relatively scanty evidence provided in the show. I have tried to stay with the most obvious interpretations and to avoid speculations that assume evidence that has not in fact been presented in the show, but your views are not beyond speculative possibility.

I agree to disagree.


Message edited by termi-ninja-tor - Thursday, 22 Dec 2011, 09:45
 
termi-ninja-torDate: Thursday, 22 Dec 2011, 09:42 | Message # 248
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I haven't read all the replies but has anyone thought that John needed to go to the future to make up for 8 years of lost training when they jumped forward in time?

It is most likely that Cameron is either on the Zeira Corp mainframe or sharing the chip with John Henry, either way in order for John to save her he needed to get the chip back. Weaver was already talking about moving John Henry before the drone attack happened, the story lines merged with Cameron giving her chip to John Henry and he took it into the future which we don't know why he jumped there except for him to learn about what his brother does in the future.

Weaver wasn't bothered about John jumping into the future with her as it was most likely the plan to return, it also shows that John cared enough about Cameron to risk his life for her like he would do for any other person.

If Weaver didn't abandon John when the patrols came what would have happened? Remember there was a dog there, John being unknown put him in enough danger already without being found with a terminator standing along side him, sure Weaver could have killed them all but that would defeat the purpose of John Connor being there to learn at the same time as John Henry does.

Please disregard anything I said if someone else already mentioned it.

Thanks for your thoughts.

I am interested in everyone's views and interpretations; I always learn something new from the posts of other participants. I appreciate your sharing your insights.
 
reiverDate: Thursday, 22 Dec 2011, 16:32 | Message # 249
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does anyone knows about the TCC SGI project of the unnoficial season 3?when it will be released?

as for the discussion above i agree with the most of what termi-ninja-tor said!!


i'm blind not deaf - IllidaN
 
wolverine13Date: Tuesday, 03 Jan 2012, 00:08 | Message # 250
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Because Cameron killed John in the future.


actually i thought that cameron sent herself back because JC was already dead but not by cameron!!!


Message edited by wolverine13 - Tuesday, 03 Jan 2012, 00:11
 
kaoticDate: Tuesday, 03 Jan 2012, 00:11 | Message # 251
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Quote (reiver)
Because Cameron killed John in the future.


actually i thought that cameron sent herself back because JC was already dead but not by cameron!!!


Yeah, that's my thinking too. It doesn't make sense AT ALL for Cameron to kill John and then protect his younger self.
 
chrisdvanneDate: Tuesday, 03 Jan 2012, 00:37 | Message # 252
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As termi-nija-tor said, most of our disagrements comes from the fact we have not enough material to back up our interpretations; in this regard, Friedman is not helping very much because they're is always several interpretations of a scene.

I won't list here again all the hints given by TSCC writer's that Cameron could have killed John in the future; the correlate question is why did she come back and also did she come back on her own or was she send by John Connor?


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kaoticDate: Tuesday, 03 Jan 2012, 00:47 | Message # 253
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I won't list here again all the hints given by TSCC writer's that Cameron could have killed John in the future


It has nothing to do with not having enough material... I guess that's the whole "everyone has their own interpretation" because I saw nothing in the show that hinted that Cameron killed John.

Quote
the correlate question is why did she come back and also did she come back on her own or was she send by John Connor?


Well, she was there to make sure John didn't die. In the pilot she stopped Cromartie from killing John. Her main mission is to protect John Connor, but she obviously has other reason for being there too.

Please, list all the "hints" given that shows that Cameron killed John. Like I said, I didn't see anything like that.


Message edited by kaotic - Tuesday, 03 Jan 2012, 00:52
 
chrisdvanneDate: Tuesday, 03 Jan 2012, 01:08 | Message # 254
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Please, list all the "hints" given that shows that Cameron killed John. Like I said, I didn't see anything like that.

That's a lot of work you're asking me smile
Ok i will do it but tomorrow because it's already midnight in France. And i don't have the courage to write another long post.


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kaoticDate: Tuesday, 03 Jan 2012, 01:20 | Message # 255
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Quote (kaotic)
Please, list all the "hints" given that shows that Cameron killed John. Like I said, I didn't see anything like that.

That's a lot of work you're asking me smile
Ok i will do it but tomorrow because it's already midnight in France. And i don't have the courage to write another long post.


Alright.

I personally think that John sent Cameron back.


Message edited by kaotic - Tuesday, 03 Jan 2012, 02:05
 
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