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Summer-Glau.com Forum » Filmography » Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles » Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
BlaziusDate: Saturday, 26 Nov 2011, 02:22 | Message # 226
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Thats how you do a proper interview with Summer Glau! At long last he let Summer speak about her job. Notice how relaxed she became when she spoke about her roles, she is not a big talker who entertain the audience with stupid jokes and boasting, acting is her true field and thats what she can talk about the best.

She says interesting things and you probably learned more about her from this interview than from most of her recent interviews especially with MR. Dumbass from the New York Con.

I also loved very much how they put in the scene from Firefly to illustrate what she is talking about and the pictures about Cameron. The interviewer 100% sure saw the series and he noticed the delicately balanced nature of Cameron which we noticed too. Also Summer somewhat confirms the theory that they did not intend to make Cameron that much human with emotion chips like Data but rather a true A.I. who gained sentience( e.g. more like a classic sci-fi robot) .

The part when the interviewer notes the balance and tells Summer that could have been appreciated more and then Summer says "Thank you" in that moving tone was truly endearing. I think that compliment made her genuinely happy.

I just wonder why is that this awesome interview cannot be found anywhere?


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
chrisdvanneDate: Saturday, 26 Nov 2011, 02:37 | Message # 227
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Quote (Blazius)
I just wonder why is that this awesome interview cannot be found anywhere?

I'm glad you liked it, it's a great interview indeed; it means also my researches were not vain biggrin

I guess it was unknown because only a sneak peek of the interview was released on youtube and it was done 3 weeks after the StarFest convention; you can find the sneak peek , as well as other videos, on the wiki pages btw at http://summer-glau.com/index/starfest/0-43. But the full interview was never released on YT (or any sharing video host btw, untill i did it) and the fansites must have missed it.

I like how the interview echoes perfectly the discussion we had on the wiki recently.


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Message edited by michelangelo - Saturday, 26 Nov 2011, 02:48
 
BlaziusDate: Saturday, 26 Nov 2011, 02:56 | Message # 228
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I'm glad you liked it, it's a great interview indeed; it means also my researches were not vain

I guess it was unknown because only a sneak peek of the interview was released on youtube and it was done 3 weeks after the StarFest convention; you can find it, as well as other videos, on the wiki pages btw at http://summer-glau.com/index/starfest/0-43. But the full interview was never released on YT and the fansites must have missed it.

I like how the interview echoes perfectly the discussion we had on the wiki recently.


I saw the sneek peek not even once( even from it it was apparent the interview must be great) and I even have it on my hard drive. I planned to hunt the full version down myself and/or post a question here if anyone has it or knows where to find it but thankfully you were quicker and saved my effort biggrin . So your effort definitely wasn't in vain at least in my opinion.

Quote (michelangelo)
I like how the interview echoes perfectly the discussion we had on the wiki recently.


Yeah, this interview and Den of the Geek article too.

We can't speak that stupid things after all if others are sharing our views so closely too.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!


Message edited by Blazius - Saturday, 26 Nov 2011, 03:00
 
FordStaffDate: Sunday, 27 Nov 2011, 07:22 | Message # 229
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Thats how you do a proper interview with Summer Glau! At long last he let Summer speak about her job. Notice how relaxed she became when she spoke about her roles, she is not a big talker who entertain the audience with stupid jokes and boasting, acting is her true field and thats what she can talk about the best.


People always love to talk about their passion. It is nice to know Summer is able to do something she is passionate for, not everyone gets such a luxury.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.
 
BlaziusDate: Monday, 28 Nov 2011, 01:11 | Message # 230
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People always love to talk about their passion. It is nice to know Summer is able to do something she is passionate for, not everyone gets such a luxury.

Yes, but I also feel the format of the interview was very appealing to Summer in general. Sitting in an armchair, a relaxed, simple talk about her job, about her experiences. Clever questions, no pressure to look cool and extravagant, boasting and advertising herself all the time. Just a clever and well mannered talk. It suits Summer more I think.

I think her entire personality, intelligence and well mannered behavior makes it harder for her to jest around and part with her more serious self and I think this is a good reason why she seems so clumsy during other interviews. I never believed this is so much because of intense shyness or that she has a weaker personality. It just doesn't match with her personality.
This interview matched her personality on the other hand and her clumsiness is gone. I'm not saying that she doesn't have a great sense of humor( in fact I think she has a great sense of humor) but her kind of funny personality is different than what amuses the masses( not sure its understandable) .

I agree that its nice to see that she is so passionate when she talks about her job through even from her acting it obvious how much it matters to her, she wouldn't do such perfect and astonishing performances if she didn't care(like most of her colleagues).


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
BlaziusDate: Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 02:33 | Message # 231
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I've got another interesting idea regarding Born to Run BTW.

We always assume that the fact that JH brought Camerons chip through the TDE was because he needed it to make his program mobile.

However that'd mean deleting and thus killing Cameron which isn't a very good aim for the show considering that Cam was a super fan favorite( killing her off would have been suicide for Friedman not even mentioning that he'd throw 2 seasons worth of character development out of the window). So obviously Cameron had to Come back in the 3rd season. So what if stealing Camerons chip served only the purpose of luring John into the future?

Why would John go to the future otherwise and abandon his life and his beloved mother? Just because a villanious and deceptive unknown liquid terminator says that he has to go? He only went with the sole purpose of saving Cameron, and I think Weaver knew that he'll only go for Cameron, if she is in jeopardy. She probably knew that John would risk his own life and even his mission for Cameron, he did that already and very likely it eventually killed him even.

So I think the plan was to bring Cameron's chip through the TDE, forcing John to see Cameron's "lifeles" body and making him believe that JH stole her chip and thus threatening her life. Then John will follow Weaver into the future. Meanwhile Mr. Murch would hide Camerons body to one of the Zeira owned Coltan shelters 'till JD where JH would find Cameron and reinsert her chip and welcome her back in the Rogue Terminators camp.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
termi-ninja-torDate: Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 03:02 | Message # 232
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I've got another interesting idea regarding Born to Run BTW.

We always assume that the fact that JH brought Camerons chip through the TDE was because he needed it to make his program mobile.

However that'd mean deleting and thus killing Cameron which isn't a very good aim for the show considering that Cam was a super fan favorite( killing her off would have been suicide for Friedman not even mentioning that he'd throw 2 seasons worth of character development out of the window). So obviously Cameron had to Come back in the 3rd season. So what if stealing Camerons chip served only the purpose of luring John into the future?

Why would John go to the future otherwise and abandon his life and his beloved mother? Just because a villanious and deceptive unknown liquid terminator says that he has to go? He only went with the sole purpose of saving Cameron, and I think Weaver knew that he'll only go for Cameron, if she is in jeopardy. She probably knew that John would risk his own life and even his mission for Cameron, he did that already and very likely it eventually killed him even.

So I think the plan was to bring Cameron's chip through the TDE, forcing John to see Cameron's "lifeles" body and making him believe that JH stole her chip and thus threatening her life. Then John will follow Weaver into the future. Meanwhile Mr. Murch would hide Camerons body to one of the Zeira owned Coltan shelters 'till JD where JH would find Cameron and reinsert her chip and welcome her back in the Rogue Terminators camp.

Interesting idea.

It assumes the Third Faction (Weaver term and John Henry) wanted John Connor to jump with Weaver term into the future. But they must have known that it would change the future a lot, and probably for the worse, since John Connor would not become the important leader that he was. After BtR, he arrived as a nobody, and the Resistance must have suffered for lack of his leadership. Why would they want that?

The basic rationale for Cameron to jump back and be John Connor's protector was to make sure he survived through Judgment Day so he could become the successful leader of the Resistance that he was. For her to want him to jump with Weaver term to follow John Henry would assure that he arrives as a nobody and with no authority within the Resistance.

It would make more sense if Weaver term was actually working for Skynet, and they plotted to make John Connor powerless and meaningless in the whole conflict. But we know that could not be the case.

The standard explanation is quite believable. John Henry needed to become mobile to escape further attack from Kaliba AI, which had located him in the Zeira basement, and Cameron's chip was the only way for him to leave. And so that is what happened.

We do not know what happened to Cameron's personality when John Henry was downloaded onto her chip. It could have been 1) still on the chip and cooperating with John Henry's decisions, 2) still on the chip and dormant in a sleep/storage mode, 3) wiped out of the chip and lost forever, or 4) swapped into the Zeira computers replacing John Henry on them, and no longer resident on the chip.

Of course the last one would imply that John Connor made a tremendous error in judgment when he chose to jump to the future thinking that Cameron was still on her chip and now in the future.

My bet is that she is still on the chip and watching, allowing John Henry to control the actions of the Cromartie body, including jumping into the future. This would give John Connor and Josh Friedman a chance to resurrect her in some way in future episodes, if there were any. She could eventually be reinserted into her old battle-damaged body either shortly after her departure (returning quickly courtesy the magic of time travel) or at a later time assuming the body could be adequately preserved, as you said, or even repaired in the interim. Or, an identical new body could be created for her.


Message edited by termi-ninja-tor - Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 03:08
 
BlaziusDate: Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 03:11 | Message # 233
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Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
It assumes the Third Faction (Weaver term and John Henry) wanted John Connor to jump with Weaver term into the future. But they must have known that it would change the future a lot, and probably for the worse, since John Connor would not become the important leader that he was. After BtR, he arrived as a nobody, and the Resistance must have suffered for lack of his leadership. Why would they want that?


Since when Weaver didn't want John to jump with her into the future?

Obviously the whole plan was to change the existing future for unknown reason. Maybe to ensure that John even survives 'till JD or even JD itself. Or something went horribly wrong always when John was already a leader or who knows?

If Weaver didn't want John to jump then why did she allowed him?

I think that Johns jump was definitely part of the plan otherwise it wouldn't make sense to me at all.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!


Message edited by Blazius - Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 03:13
 
termi-ninja-torDate: Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 03:35 | Message # 234
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Quote (Blazius)
Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
It assumes the Third Faction (Weaver term and John Henry) wanted John Connor to jump with Weaver term into the future. But they must have known that it would change the future a lot, and probably for the worse, since John Connor would not become the important leader that he was. After BtR, he arrived as a nobody, and the Resistance must have suffered for lack of his leadership. Why would they want that?


Since when Weaver didn't want John to jump with her into the future?

Obviously the whole plan was to change the existing future for unknown reason. Maybe to ensure that John even survives 'till JD or even JD itself. Or something went horribly wrong always when John was already a leader or who knows?

If Weaver didn't want John to jump then why did she allowed him?

I think that Johns jump was definitely part of the plan otherwise it wouldn't make sense to me at all.

Weaver term allowed John Connor to jump with her, but she did not entice or lure him. To me, it seemed like she did not care what he chose to do. (And she did not stay with him in the future after the jump. He did not seem valuable to her.)

Weaver term only cared for John Henry. That's why she asked Ellison if he would jump, because Ellison was important to John Henry.

John Connor's jump was the result of two story lines coming together at the same time. First, the Kaliba AI figured out that John Henry was at Zeira Corp and decided to attack it. Second, the Connors decided to meet with Weaver term and to have Cameron go meet John Henry in the Zeira basement. These are two completely independent arcs. They have independent timing. Neither depended on the other for timing; Coincidentally, they both happened at the same time. There was no way that Weaver term and John Henry could have planned this ahead of time.

Weaver term could not have known ahead of time that John Henry could get Cameron's chip just when Kaliba AI attacked Zeira. And getting Cameron's chip was what allowed John Henry to escape the basement and jump into the future. There is no way Weaver term could have planned this ahead of time.

Watching BtR, it seemed to me that this sequence of events were events that just happened as the situation evolved. The characters' actions were driven by circumstance and coincidence. It does not have to "make sense" to you. It just happened. Sometimes stuff just happens for no big underlying reason. (Unfortunately, we still have to live with the results.)


Message edited by termi-ninja-tor - Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 03:37
 
BlaziusDate: Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 03:57 | Message # 235
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Weaver term allowed John Connor to jump with her, but she did not entice or lure him. To me, it seemed like she did not care what he chose to do. (And she did not stay with him in the future after the jump. He did not seem valuable to her.)

Weaver term only cared for John Henry. That's why she asked Ellison if he would jump, because Ellison was important to John Henry.

John Connor's jump was the result of two story lines coming together at the same time. First, the Kaliba AI figured out that John Henry was at Zeira Corp and decided to attack it. Second, the Connors decided to meet with Weaver term and to have Cameron go meet John Henry in the Zeira basement. These are two completely independent arcs. They have independent timing. Neither depended on the other for timing; Coincidentally, they both happened at the same time. There was no way that Weaver term and John Henry could have planned this ahead of time.

Weaver term could not have known ahead of time that John Henry could get Cameron's chip just when Kaliba AI attacked Zeira. And getting Cameron's chip was what allowed John Henry to escape the basement and jump into the future. There is no way Weaver term could have planned this ahead of time.

Watching BtR, it seemed to me that this sequence of events were events that just happened as the situation evolved. The characters' actions were driven by circumstance and coincidence. It does not have to "make sense" to you. It just happened. Sometimes stuff just happens for no big underlying reason. (Unfortunately, we still have to live with the results.)


Except that Cameron got the message from Elison even before any of that happened. In that moment Cameron seemed to know exactly what she was going to do e.g. the affair with her chip and JH seemed about the only planned thing by the Third faction in the episode.

And interestingly Weaver invites John to meet her in person at Zeira Corp and magically just happened to know where Cameron should be during the meeting even mentioning it on purpose to foreshadow danger to Cameron. And it was again her who suggested to go to the basement.

And if she knew that removing John from the timeline would end with undesirable results she wouldn't let John jump IMO. If anything, the removal of leader John gave the Third faction and JH more influence and thus they had more chance to prove that they won't mess up things as future John did(maybe with his death by Cameron).

I know the chip sharing idea is the most popular theory but on a second thought, that seems a bit too techno-blabbla-ish and contrived for TSCC in my opinion. I'm sure that there would have been another explanation for Camerons resurrection.


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termi-ninja-torDate: Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 04:59 | Message # 236
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Except that Cameron got the message from Elison even before any of that happened. In that moment Cameron seemed to know exactly what she was going to do e.g. the affair with her chip and JH seemed about the only planned thing by the Third faction in the episode.

The most that Cameron could have anticipated was the sharing of her chip. There was no way she could have known that there was a time machine in the Zeira basement. And there was no way she could have known that Kaliba AI would choose to attack Zeira right at that moment.

Quote (Blazius)
And interestingly Weaver invites John to meet her in person at Zeira Corp and magically just happened to know where Cameron should be during the meeting even mentioning it on purpose to foreshadow danger to Cameron. And it was again her who suggested to go to the basement.

Clearly, Weaver term and John Henry had a method of communicating wirelessly. (Even my stupid computer can do that with my router.) And John Henry surely must have kept Weaver term informed of developments, including Cameron's arrival in his room. Weaver term must also have known of John Henry's decision to jump into the future, so she needed to go to the basement to activate the time machine to follow him. The Connors were incidental to this.

Quote (Blazius)
And if she knew that removing John from the timeline would end with undesirable results she wouldn't let John jump IMO. If anything, the removal of leader John gave the Third faction and JH more influence and thus they had more chance to prove that they won't mess up things as future John did(maybe with his death by Cameron).

It's pretty clear that John Connor's leadership was important to the success of the Resistance in its fight against Skynet. Kyle said as much in T1. Removing John from leadership of the Resistance would conversely significantly weaken the Resistance's efforts. Skynet knew this when it sent terminators to kill Sarah and John. Now John has done this himself. Weaver term would not plan to do this, but she would be willing to let John choose for himself. It's not her job to either encourage him to jump nor prevent him from jumping if that is what he wants to do. (Maybe she figured that he could always jump back later, something that I would count on as a fan.) Also, as you recall, I do not believe that Cameron caused John's death in the future.

Quote (Blazius)
I know the chip sharing idea is the most popular theory but on a second thought, that seems a bit too techno-blabbla-ish and contrived for TSCC in my opinion. I'm sure that there would have been another explanation for Camerons resurrection.

Do you believe that Cameron swapped herself into the Zeira basement computers? If not, then where else would she be if not sharing the chip?


Message edited by termi-ninja-tor - Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 05:29
 
BlaziusDate: Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 06:12 | Message # 237
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The most that Cameron could have anticipated was the sharing of her chip. There was no way she could have known that there was a time machine in the Zeira basement. And there was no way she could have known that Kaliba AI would choose to attack Zeira right at that moment.


She only had to know that she has to find JH and Weaver which she did eventually. Weaver sent the message and she knew about the TDE obviously. The Kaliba attack was a surprise indeed but it only served to accelerate Weavers plans. Also I doubt that the TDE was merely an escape route for JH and Weaver. What Kaliba could possibly send against them which Weaver and Cameron together couldn't handle?

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
Clearly, Weaver term and John Henry had a method of communicating wirelessly. (Even my stupid computer can do that with my router.) And John Henry surely must have kept Weaver term informed of developments, including Cameron's arrival in his room. Weaver term must also have known of John Henry's decision to jump into the future, so she needed to go to the basement to activate the time machine to follow him. The Connors were incidental to this.


John Henry's decision? It seemed to me that its still Weaver who pulls the strings despite JH will take this role in the future eventually (just like in the case of Sarah and John). Moreover she commands the Connors to the basement despite John wants to get the hell out of the building , its not like they just decided to follow Weaver so that seemed quite planned to me.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
It's pretty clear that John Connor's leadership was important to the success of the Resuistance in its fight against Skynet. Kyle said as much in T1. Removing John from leadership of the Resistance would conversely significantly weaken the Resistance's efforts. Skynet knew this when it sent terminators to kill Sarah and John. Now John has done this himself. Weaver term would not plan to do this, but she would be willing to let John choose for himself. It's not her job to either encourage him to jump nor prevent him from jumping if that is what he wants to do. (Maybe she figured that he could always jump back later, something that I would count on as a fan.) Also, as you recall, I do not believe that Cameron caused John's death in the future.


For an entirely logic driven faction of robots who had a deliberate plan on changing events in the past so it'd perfectly fit their needs in the future it'd seem a bit careless to let John decide what he does. Especially if what he is planning to do would cause to severally weaken both the Resistance and the Third faction and would bring about the victory of Skynet. So I guess future Johns removal was actually helped things especially if he was still around in the future but not as the founder of the Resistance.

Also things became pretty nasty in the past as it seems. From one lone terminator Skynet started to send back an army of terminators, more and more advanced ones on the top of that.


Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
Do you believe that Cameron swapped herself into the Zeira basement computers? If not, then where else would she be if not sharing the chip?


I'd prefer her remaining in her chip alone. Somehow this merging thing just doesn't feel right. How would her chip have the capacity to contain two AIs?
Without damaging one of them? Also Mr. Murch says that JH's personality could be destroyed with a simple change in the hardware. So AI's are very fragile as it seems( this also questions if JH could even operate with Camerons chip, it makes more sense that Zeira corp made a specific hardware for the JH AI in the Cromartie body)

Also somehow they'd have to explain how Summer could continue to play Cameron. If Weaver or somebody doesn't hide her body somewhere safe on purpose and its destroyed then how they reacquire her body? I don't think the Third faction had factories but even then I doubt Alison would agree to to let them copy her body voluntarily. Also Skynet wouldn't want to make Cameron either since John is out of the picture. Sarah wouldn't preserve Cams body obviously since she hates her( even more now because she most likely blames Cam for "taking away John" from her).


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termi-ninja-torDate: Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 09:14 | Message # 238
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I doubt that the TDE was merely an escape route for JH and Weaver. What Kaliba could possibly send against them which Weaver and Cameron together couldn't handle?

Kaliba AI could have control of extensive resources. The key is that Weaver term does not know the extent of Kaliba AI's resources. Like Kaliba AI could nuke the Zeira building with a tactical nuclear missile. And remember John Henry is relatively defenseless against such attack so long as he is still in the Zeira computers. And if he takes Cameron's chip, she will no longer be available to defend him.

Quote (Blazius)
John Henry's decision? It seemed to me that its still Weaver who pulls the strings despite JH will take this role in the future eventually (just like in the case of Sarah and John).

True, we were not shown who made the decision for John Henry to jump into the future. It could have been Weaver term who decided and then commanded John Henry via their wireless communications. But no matter who it was that made the decision, this choice was not made until 1) Cameron gave John Henry her chip (which made John Henry's departure even possible) and 2) the aerial HK crashed into Weaver's office (which gave them a reason to leave).

Quote (Blazius)
Moreover she commands the Connors to the basement despite John wants to get the hell out of the building , its not like they just decided to follow Weaver so that seemed quite planned to me.

Weaver term never commanded the Connors to go to the basement. She told Ellison, her employee, to go to the basement for John Henry. You can see it here at the 1:51 mark:

Click here for a Clip from Born to Run and watch at the 1:51 mark

Here's the transcript:

Quote
Weaver term: The basement, Mr. Ellison. John Henry.
Sarah: We need to get out. They're trying to kill my son.
Weaver term: No, they're trying to kill my son. Just like you are.
Sarah: I'm sure she's done it.
Weaver: You better hope not. Your John may save the world, but he can't do it without mine.


Quote (Blazius)
For an entirely logic driven faction of robots who had a deliberate plan on changing events in the past so it'd perfectly fit their needs in the future it'd seem a bit careless to let John decide what he does. Especially if what he is planning to do would cause to severally weaken both the Resistance and the Third faction and would bring about the victory of Skynet. So I guess future Johns removal was actually helped things especially if he was still around in the future but not as the founder of the Resistance.

Such logic is soft in a world that has time machines because John can always jump back and get back on track to becoming the leader of the Resistance. The Third Faction may feel that it doesn't matter if John makes a temporary trip into the future if he feels strongly that he wants to chase after Cameron's chip; they know they can always send him back. In fact, if they block him and frustrate his desires, he may become their enemy, an undesirable result. So they will let him do whatever he wants.

Quote (Blazius)
I'd prefer her remaining in her chip alone. Somehow this merging thing just doesn't feel right. How would her chip have the capacity to contain two AIs?
Without damaging one of them?

If Cameron remains on her chip alone, then she must be walking around in the future in Cromartie's body and John Henry would still be in the Zeira computers in the basement. And Weaver term would know all this because of her wireless communication link with John Henry. And yet Weaver term still jumped into the future, leaving her precious John Henry completely defenseless in the Zeira basement. To me, this scenario is so divergent from the apparent logic of the episode that I must ask for further explanation to support it.

We have been told very little about the capacity of Cameron's chip. In Strange Things Happen at the One Two Point, Xander Akagi said that a person's entire life could be stored on a chip:

Quote
They used to think that 12-nanometer scale was impossible. The
circuits are so tiny, you're all but in the quantum realm. It's the most
sophisticated processor on earth. If you could take your memories, your
consciousness... everything that makes you a person, turn it into pure
data and download it onto a machine, that chip could run it.


The implication was that such a chip was either currently available or only one or two generations away in the future. Of course, Cameron's chip is many generations beyond that. We do not know its capabilities and capacities. I could easily believe that two personalities could reside on such a far advanced chip.


Message edited by termi-ninja-tor - Wednesday, 21 Dec 2011, 02:58
 
chrisdvanneDate: Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 10:09 | Message # 239
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A statement made in your post #231 is false Blazius : "making him believe that JH stole her chip and thus threatening her life."
John thought at first that JH stole the chip but firstly weaver said "she gave it to him" (she could be lying but it's unlikely) and secondly Cameron wrote the message "I'm sorry John".
For John, seing Cameron's dead body and knowing she was at risk in the future was a sufficient motivation in itself to go to the future. There is no indication that weaver lured him to go.
I agree with termi-ninja-tor, two separate stories collided but luring JC into the future was not part of the plan.

The fact that young John sent in the future was a nobody is not detrimental to future John since we know almost for certain that TSCC season would have taken place in the future for less than a half-season anyway; in the future, young John would have met Allison (way to keep Summer Glau in the serie) and interact with in a almost but not romantic way. Then John would have found Cameron's body (good idea of yours to suppose it was hidden in a weave's coltan shelter) and reinserted the chip (given it's in JH's body).

Then TSCC would have been back in the regular time line with the regular characters, aka John Sarah and Cameron, where the serie would have taken back its regular course. Would Derek have been there is anyone's guess.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
Weaver term and John Henry had a method of communicating wirelessly.

TSCC writers showed us several time that they think alike at least, when they say the same words at the same time for example.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
In Strange Things Happen at the One Two Point, Xander Akagi said that a person's entire life could be stored on a chip.

Such things are not said at random and then forgotten for the rest of the serie; TSCC is a serialized show, which means the writers give hints of something to happen but the audience has not enough elements to know what it will be; then when the event come, the audience can connect it with previous elements given throughout the previous episodes.

Overall, i think termi-ninja-tor gave a pretty good summary of what happened in BtR and of season 3; except when he says that Cameron didn't kill future John but this has nothing to do with our current conversation (Freidman probably kept that for later seasons).


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BlaziusDate: Tuesday, 20 Dec 2011, 11:30 | Message # 240
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Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
Kaliba AI could have control of extensive resources. The key is that Weaver term does not know the extent of Kaliba AI's resources. Like Kaliba AI could nuke the Zeira building with a tactical nuclear missile. And remember John Henry is relatively defenseless against such attack so long as he is still in the Zeira computers. And if he takes Cameron's chip, she will no longer be available to defend him.


But if the TDE is just an escape route why not going into the past instead of the future? When Kaliba and proto-Skynet doesn't exist yet? It doesn't make sense unless the jump was made because they go to the next phase which happens in the future.

Also if proto-Skynet nukes LA then it'll reveal itself too soon blowing the element of surprise which made JD even possible.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
True, we were not shown who made the decision for John Henry to jump into the future. It could have been Weaver term who decided and then commanded John Henry via their wireless communications. But no matter who it was that made the decision, this choice was not made until 1) Cameron gave John Henry her chip (which made John Henry's departure even possible) and 2) the aerial HK crashed into Weaver's office (which gave them a reason to leave).


Cameron knew she'll give the chip to JH in the moment Elison asked the question. She hardly ever knew about the attack at all meaning that the plan was to travel into the future regardless of what Kaliba is doing. Cameron was in an unwindowed basement and JH told her nothing about imminent dangers. She just gave him the chip as it was planned a long time ago at the moment it was planned she will do it. Why it was a spontaneous decision then?

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
Weaver term never commanded the Connors to go to the basement. She told Ellison, her employee, to go to the basement for John Henry. You can see it here at the 1:51 mark:

Clip from Born to Run

Here's the transcript:

Quote
Weaver term: The basement, Mr. Ellison. John Henry.
Sarah: We need to get out. They're trying to kill my son.
Weaver term: No, they're trying to kill my son. Just like you are.
Sarah: I'm sure she's done it.
Weaver: You better hope not. Your John may save the world, but he can't do it without mine.


How did Sarah and John ended up in the basement then? It seemed that Weaver leads them there on purpose( I must admit this part is not clear since Weaver shifts topic)

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
Such logic is soft in a world that has time machines because John can always jump back and get back on track to becoming the leader of the Resistance. The Third Faction may feel that it doesn't matter if John makes a temporary trip into the future if he feels strongly that he wants to chase after Cameron's chip; they know they can always send him back. In fact, if they block him and frustrate his desires, he may become their enemy, an undesirable result. So they will let him do whatever he wants.


And let John be killed in the dangerous war torn future where people don't even know about his importance and would even conscript him to die in the front lines just to let him follow the call of his hearth?

Also he was erased from even the Third factions memory too, so only Weaver would know about him. Others won't even let him near the TDE.

Also, nobody jumps without a plan and risks messing up the timeline in a real bad way( except Jesse but Weaver should not be that stupid)

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
If Cameron remains on her chip alone, then she must be walking around in the future in Cromartie's body and John Henry would still be in the Zeira computers in the basement. And Weaver term would know all this because of her wireless communication link with John Henry. And yet Weaver term still jumped into the future, leaving her precious John Henry completely defenseless in the Zeira basement. To me, this scenario is so divergent from the apparent logic of the episode that I must ask for further explanation to support it.


No, in my theory I suggested that JH actually has the means to leave the room without the chip and he just grabs it to lure John into the TDE.

Quote (termi-ninja-tor)
We have been told very little about the capacity of Cameron's chip. In Strange Things Happen at the One Two Point, Xander Akagi said that a person's entire life could be stored on a chip:

Quote
They used to think that 12-nanometer scale was impossible. The
circuits are so tiny, you're all but in the quantum realm. It's the most
sophisticated processor on earth. If you could take your memories, your
consciousness... everything that makes you a person, turn it into pure
data and download it onto a machine, that chip could run it.

The implication was that such a chip was either currently available or only one or two generations away in the future. Of course, Cameron's chip is many generations beyond that. We do not know its capabilities and capacities. I could easily believe that two personalities could reside on such a far advanced chip.


Why would Skynet waste resources on making Camerons chip capable of holding two programs? Its was designed to hold a personalityless Cameron automaton but given its super advanced nature and to allow learning it could contain a much more complex and sentient Cameron but two such advanced programs seems a bit too much to me.

I also always thought its just exaggeration made by an overenthusiastic boy( who would he know how big is a human personality or whatnot exactly?). Its a reference clearly to the terminator chip but anything beyond that?

Especially for a chip that holds two personalities? It never came through for me that way.

Quote (chrisdvanne)
For John, seing Cameron's dead body and knowing she was at risk in the future was a sufficient motivation in itself to go to the future.


OK, I forgot the part with Weaver telling him that Cameron's chip wasn't stolen.

Still my theory was essentially that Weaver used that fear that you describe to lure him through the TDE.

Quote (chrisdvanne)
There is no indication that weaver lured him to go.


But thats my other problem with the current interpretation. Until that point John was the most important being on Earth and the key to defeat Skynet. Later we learn that it wont work without JH. Thats OK. But now that he is perfectly irrelevant to the point that Weaver doesn't care if he remains in the past or goes to the future and has absolutely no plans for him?

Quote (chrisdvanne)
Then John would have found Cameron's body (good idea of yours to suppose it was hidden in a weave's coltan shelter)


Why would anybody preserve her body on purpose if not for John to be able to resurrect her? Using Johns love interest as a mere vessel for JH only causes unwanted tension between the Third faction and John unless they don't know that John loves her that much. But they know that. Why would they take her chip then? To use his love to lure him into the future I presume. Otherwise why not just use another terminators chip?


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