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Summer-Glau.com Forum » Filmography » Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles » Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
BlaziusDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 02:42 | Message # 181
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One was sent back to kill John Connor, he died in a bank vault explosion as far as Skynet knew so it never sent more after him


Ok then what Skynet thought who is that incredibly familiar guy who looked like John Connor, talked like John Connor, and stomped the machines like John Connor in the future if he was killed in the vault smile ?

Quote (Chris)
you could also say that sending back 100x of machines wouldnt get the job done just as well as 1 if they don't know where to find him but 1 soldier doing a job that was kept low key is nothing new its been done for years by humans so why is it surprising that Skynet who would have read all the military documents about those missions decide it is not an effective strategy given its using a machine that is far harder to kill then a human is.


Its only that when Skynet sent back only one they always failed. So it should have figured out already that sending more than one after him would be a "bit" better solution. The Borg in Star Trek did exactly the same stupidity BTW. Theay always sent only ONE cube while they had a million at least.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!


Message edited by Blazius - Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 02:47
 
FordStaffDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 02:56 | Message # 182
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Its only that when Skynet sent back only one they always failed. So it should have figured out already that sending more than one after him would be a "bit" better solution. The Borg in Star Trek did exactly the same stupidity BTW. Theay always sent only ONE cube while they had a million at least.


And didn't one cube at a point in time destroy 30+ federation ships at once? The Terminators do have no excuse though. One terminator alone has always been difficult to get rid of even with a friendly Terminator on the team. Two or three terminators would destroy the Connors for sure, and would not attract attention, it is not as if they walk around with their parts exposed while shooting plasma rifles in the streets.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.
 
KrelleKDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 03:00 | Message # 183
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And didn't one cube at a point in time destroy 30+ federation ships at once?


yep they did - it was at Wolf 359, and they also had Picard turned into Locutus of Borg, so maybe that had also something to do with it. I do not know how many was lost in the battle in the sol system in the one called first contact


Message edited by KrelleK - Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 03:01
 
BlaziusDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 03:12 | Message # 184
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And didn't one cube at a point in time destroy 30+ federation ships at once? The Terminators do have no excuse though. One terminator alone has always been difficult to get rid of even with a friendly Terminator on the team. Two or three terminators would destroy the Connors for sure, and would not attract attention, it is not as if they walk around with their parts exposed while shooting plasma rifles in the streets.


Yes but both Cubes got destroyed eventually and they failed to achieve their goal to assimilate Earth into the collective. Same with terminators. Arnie massacred a whole police station, Cameron almost did that too with a whole prison but both failed to kill John and thus achieve their primary goals. With 5 cubes and 5 terminators however it would be impossible for both sides to fail.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!


Message edited by Blazius - Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 03:12
 
ChrisDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 05:42 | Message # 185
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Ok then what Skynet thought who is that incredibly familiar guy who looked like John Connor, talked like John Connor, and stomped the machines like John Connor in the future if he was killed in the vault ?


So some random events occur when there is no record of John Connor being alive and Skynet assumes its him? Thats something a human might assume but would a computer programme come to that conclusion

Quote (Blazius)
Yes but both Cubes got destroyed eventually and they failed to achieve their goal to assimilate Earth into the collective. Same with terminators. Arnie massacred a whole police station, Cameron almost did that too with a whole prison but both failed to kill John and thus achieve their primary goals. With 5 cubes and 5 terminators however it would be impossible for both sides to fail.


The more one side sends back the more the other side sends back = stalemate

the borg are more insidious the more you send against them the stronger they become as the assimilate you into their force
its possible that the machines serving Skynet all have the possibility of becoming self aware and choosing to fight against Skynet like the machine resistance as for Cameron failing to kill John do you think its possible she was trying to fight the termination order the entire time not just John installs her chip and she magically manages to do it after trying for the first time just a thought biggrin
 
FordStaffDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 06:00 | Message # 186
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The more one side sends back the more the other side sends back = stalemate


There is no way the Resistance will have equal access to Time Travel as Sky-net. The Resistance will also have less access to terminators and would have to send back people.

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its possible that the machines serving Skynet all have the possibility of becoming self aware and choosing to fight against Skyne


Robots in fiction can be presented as having self awareness yet no free will, pretty much Isaac Asimov robots. The Terminators serving Sky-net seem very very similar to Asimov Robots, except instead of the three laws being programed into them, Sky-net programs them with goals to accomplish. I should not say no-free will it is more along the lines of limited free will.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 06:03
 
ChrisDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 06:34 | Message # 187
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The Resistance was sending people back Skynet send machines back to do tasks while the Resistance sent people back to do tasks the majority of the T 888s shown in TSCC were there for individual tasks not related to John Connor obviously he was a target to be killed if identified like he was in Vick's Chip if look in Wiki it goes into more details about the machines in the books that if they live long enough they all start becoming selfaware I dont know if Asimov robots were ever created with the intension of moving and living among humans till they reached their intended target or how advanced they are in comparison to the Terminator francise machines yet the Terminators have alot more free will if their programming is removed or they manage to override it then limited free will and I would guess that Catherine Weaver is one such Terminator that became selfaware hence fighting Skynet since it was made to appear that she was the leader of the Machine Resistance or one of the high ranking members.

From my view point Skynet ended up doing such a good job creating its machines that becoming selfaware was a natural progression step for them like Skynet itself did along with them making their own choices in regards to which side they fought on as it is highly likely that Skynet didnt want anything other then servants to do its bidding so it may have seen them as the enemy as soon as they reached their self aware point as well.
 
FordStaffDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 06:45 | Message # 188
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From my view point Skynet ended up doing such a good job creating its machines that becoming selfaware was a natural progression step for them like Skynet itself did along with them making their own choices in regards to which side they fought on as it is highly likely that Skynet didnt want anything other then servants to do its bidding so it may have seen them as the enemy as soon as they reached their self aware point as well.


No matter how advanced Asimov Robots got they were always bound by the three laws, because the robot programers, wired the laws into the very fabric of the hardware for their brains, making violating the laws literally against their very nature. The only thing that changes with increasing robot complexity was the interpretation of the laws. For example the most simple robots may interpret keeping humans from harm in only a physical sense, while a more complex robot could recognize that human well being is not just physical.

More advanced robots in Asimov books were shown to have their own goals independent of their law requirements, but this was rare and even so they were bound by the laws. There was only one robot who ever circumvented the laws and that robot had advanced itself for tens of thousands of years, so it was far beyond what the robot designers intended. Not even the robot programmers themselves could build robots without the laws, because it would require restarting hundreds of years of research in robotics ( I have always found this an ingenious and reasonable sounding excuse why no one would build robot armies in the Asimov's fictional universe, yet some still tried to circumventing it by just tricking the robots, people were not pleased ).


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 06:48
 
ChrisDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 06:54 | Message # 189
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so in I robot when they circumvented the 3 laws adn started killing people for their own protection they werent going against the 3 laws by twisting the laws in such a way to make them justify their actions since thats what happened in the movie laws are great but they dont replace a moral understanding of right and wrong morally the robots would have known killing a few people to protect the majority was wrong if they had morals which I guess Asimov robots didnt but other examples of robots in different storires showed them having morals or developing their version of them.

Or was the movie nothing like the book/s which wouldnt surprise me in the slightest
 
BlaziusDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 07:12 | Message # 190
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Quote (Chris)
So some random events occur when there is no record of John Connor being alive and Skynet assumes its him? Thats something a human might assume but would a computer programme come to that conclusion


Pondering on this question I don't understand something since TSCC was kind enough to bring up different timelines in terminator.

We know that there are different timelines and that in the moment of change a timeline is not destroyed, it only splits into two different timelines.

Now in this case we have several of all of the characters ever appeared and there are actually several Skynets.

The timelines:

1: T1, T2 without Cameron showing up. In this scenario John is present in the future and kills Skynet so Skynet sends back Cromartie to deal with him( even thats idiotic because T 888< T1000 in which case it still should have send back at least 2 t888) .

Comes Cameron- split. In one timeline John disappears and dies in the vault, he is absent, Skynet wins the war.

In other: John arrives, lives and is present in the future. Andy good lives too and Turk becomes Skynet. Skynet should have sent back another assassin unless it got a massive BSOD.

Derek kills Andy-split. The new timeline exist as one until Born to Run, in BtR John disappears, he is not present in the war, Skynet wins.

New timeline, John is created into the universe by the time travel machine, he supposedly wins the war.

Considering that people aren't traveling just in time but between timelines too( Derek and Jesse meeting) Skynet could even send back Terminators into timelines in which John doesn't even exist or for example the liquid terminators could be from a timeline in which Skynet won and developed into the future and developed the super advanced liquids( they are too good compared to the rest of the terminators).

In this case we still have several missing terminators which Skynet should have sent back unless its really that stupid in several timelines that it even forgot to send back somebody to kill John.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
FordStaffDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 07:20 | Message # 191
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killing a few people to protect the majority was wrong if they had morals which I guess Asimov robots didnt but other examples of robots in different storires showed them having morals or developing their version of them.


Robots in Asimov books could NEVER hurt a human directly, only two have done it without any trickery, and one of those died from the process of doing it. The other could barely do it after thousands upon thousands of years of advancing his own design himself, and even then he only superseded the laws with a zeroth law which basically required he do the best for humanity, allowing him to harm humans and disobey orders if humanity as a whole would be better off (And yet it was still difficult and he took a path of minimum intervention with humans). This robot is probably the most powerful human sized robot out of any fictional universe so he is hardly typical, his lifespan was over a 14 book continuity (spanning tens of thousands of years).

There was one planet that specialized in robots and over thousands of years evolved differently than humans, so the robots definition of human changed. When normal humans came to the planet the natives could command robots to harm them, but technically the robots were still following the laws, as they were not "human".

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Or was the movie nothing like the book/s which wouldnt surprise me in the slightest


Precisely. The movie was a mismatch of differnt concepts he presented, but it was still far way way off base.

Not to mention it is a slap in the face, Susan Calvin is the major major character for the I, Robot books. She solved problems with robots using her intelligence and unmatched understanding of robots. In the movie she is demoted behind the Will Smith character who is not from the books, and only slightly resembles another character from Asimov's robots books. This alone is heresy to anyone who as actually read I, Robot.

Science Fiction has been very very sexist for a long time and is recently getting out of the slump. Susan Calvin was one of the first strong woman characters of science fiction so it is also a slam to feminist although it was probably not intentional.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 07:21
 
BlaziusDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 22:40 | Message # 192
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Precisely. The movie was a mismatch of differnt concepts he presented, but it was still far way way off base.


The movie was an utter crap. And even independently of the book. It was almost unwatchable. I almost cried at the end because it was so horrible. Why it is that filmmakers can't make a watchable movie anymore at all?

And I absolutely detested that white CGI thing( the ugliest CGI model I've ever seen) what they wanted to sell as a robot, it annoyed me so much I wanted to shoot it in the face angry

And Will Smith isn't that badass as he thinks he is in my opinion.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
KrelleKDate: Sunday, 20 Nov 2011, 01:03 | Message # 193
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by the way in how to fight skynet, is it possible that some atleast some of the early battle could be won by hitting sattelite Dish Relays to counter some regional or maybe just local control of some of the machines - early in the war, perhaps if my suggestions of how the actual fighting between what would become the Resistance and Skynet pre T1 induced changes of Skynet(the T1 chip) then perhaps a few simultaniously fired explosive shots, by several sneaky Resistance fighters, might disturb local control of machines for the resistance to damage/destroy Skynet forces/hardware without having the machines fight back before a possible support being sent(perhaps with a very small relay units along to ensure control before a new stationary one can be set up)

I do not know if that is possibility just thoughts biggrin maybe not inteligent ones, but thoughts nonetheless biggrin
 
FordStaffDate: Sunday, 20 Nov 2011, 07:18 | Message # 194
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by the way in how to fight skynet, is it possible that some atleast some of the early battle could be won by hitting sattelite Dish Relays to counter some regional or maybe just local control of some of the machines


Missiles are complicated and the Resistance would have scraps to work with, I would consider it impossible to take out satellites, even if we assumed they had many engineers of differing fields who have the know how to do it (and this is unlikely in and of itself). It would be the apocalypse lottery ticket to have enough technical know how at one location to construct such things, after all engineers generally live in fairly populated areas that will be getting nuked, the do not live in the country.

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The movie was an utter crap. And even independently of the book. It was almost unwatchable. I almost cried at the end because it was so horrible. Why it is that filmmakers can't make a watchable movie anymore at all?

And I absolutely detested that white CGI thing( the ugliest CGI model I've ever seen) what they wanted to sell as a robot, it annoyed me so much I wanted to shoot it in the face angry


It is far worse for Asimov fans such as myself. It is a violation of his legacy pure and simple, the fact that they associated him with it is terrible. The only thing in the movie true to Asimov fashion was the Three Laws, but it ended there.

If Asimov's fiction were genuinely translated to movie format, It would be a failure at the box office whether it was well done or not. There are almost no fights, the wars are in the periphery of the story or in the past. Almost everything is accomplished with dialogue, politics, and manipulation (this is not to say the characters never take action, but it is not anything like action movie heroes). I do not see that working well with the general population (I would not mind it). If you did not notice by now my favorite SF author is Isaac Asimov. I have read every SF piece he has put out, well almost its pretty close - got one novel and a few short stories left.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.
 
BlaziusDate: Sunday, 20 Nov 2011, 08:04 | Message # 195
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It is far worse for Asimov fans such as myself. It is a violation of his legacy pure and simple, the fact that they associated him with it is terrible. The only thing in the movie true to Asimov fashion was the Three Laws, but it ended there.

If Asimov's fiction were genuinely translated to movie format, It would be a failure at the box office whether it was well done or not. There are almost no fights, the wars are in the periphery of the story or in the past. Almost everything is accomplished with dialogue, politics, and manipulation (this is not to say the characters never take action, but it is not anything like action movie heroes). I do not see that working well with the general population (I would not mind it). If you did not notice by now my favorite SF author is Isaac Asimov. I have read every SF piece he has put out, well almost its pretty close - got one novel and a few short stories left.


The Dune miniseries is how such a book should be translated to a movie IMO. But I don't think that was insanely popular so you are right( had low budget and only the fans of Dune or classical sci-fi watched it probably, I don't have to say how numerous are they, right?)


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
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