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Summer-Glau.com Forum » Filmography » Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles » Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
BlaziusDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 01:18 | Message # 166
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Quote (michelangelo)
Of course all the elements you describe are not plausible, even with the presence of another faction of the humans not under Skynet's threat that supplies the Human resistance led by John Connor.
This is where the notion of suspension of disbelief comes in play; i have no problem with these peripherical issues as long as the arc stories and the character development makes sense.


Of course. The story is about John the Messiah of humanity who with his incredibly charismatic personality, tactical genius, can bring the humans together and even manage to defeat impossible odds. Because we all know that if humanity stands together then we can defeat any enemy, and there is even the power of love and friendship and such. smile :) smile

Jokes aside, personally I don't have problem with this either, if they can make a good story and avoid making too blatant plot devices then its fine. And Terminator managed to do that IMO thats why we love it, right?

Maybe the story should conclude in the heroic defeat of humanity or Skynets change of hearth so it'd be more believable than the humans defeating Skynet.

There is a show which did similar BTW and it worked for me. BTW a brilliant ending just came into my mind but I'll keep it for the comic book I think.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!


Message edited by Blazius - Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 01:22
 
chrisdvanneDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 01:26 | Message # 167
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Quote (Blazius)
Because we all know that if humanity stands together then we can defeat any enemy

When i hear that type of argument repeted in every good American blockbuster, i can't help thinking about the speech made by the US President (played by Bill Pullman) in Independance Day . I see you've learned the lesson too Blazius biggrin


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FordStaffDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 01:35 | Message # 168
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When i hear that type of argument repeted in every good American blockbuster, i can't help thinking about the speech made by the US President (played by Bill Pullman) in Independance Day . I see you've learned the lesson too Blazius biggrin


If I get the chance to make a blockbuster I will have the story build up to just this sort of speech, just so I can have the humans curb stomped back to reality immediately after for once. I am tired of seeing humans defeat century old space faring aliens. Is every alien race that invades earth complete morons? That is my only explanation to why none of them use 19th century technology (atom bomb) to kill all humans without even entering the earth's atmosphere.

Quote

Maybe the story should conclude in the heroic defeat of humanity or Skynets change of hearth so it'd be more believable than the humans defeating Skynet.


The problem is that even the human race's prolonged survival is breaking the suspension of disbelief. Far more believable for victory rather than change of heart, is John Connor using his computer skills to actually combat sky-net directly.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 01:38
 
KrelleKDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 01:37 | Message # 169
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I concede this point, except that once Sky-net forces converged with the Resistance movement it would be about the equivalent to the Europeans meeting the Native Americans, or even worse.

Human survivors will be very limited, and there is no reasonable way for there to be enough technical know how to create new infrastructure anything near current day technology, Sky-net on the other hand would have more knowledge on every subject than all the remaining human race accumulated together.

Also of note is that the human survivors would be scattered across the entire planet which was turned into a nuclear waste land. It would take years upon years to even gather enough people to be reasonably called a Resistance, and it would be Fragmented across multiple regions. This is a disadvantage Sky-net would not have.


well i am sure that Skynet would react swiftly to produce weapons, when they meet.

And here i am still thinking of the war pre T1, I was thinking that the humans might for quite some time think skynet might have been destroyed too, so that the few survivors there might be in the cities, maybe there would be more than we think - like people takin the trains in the metro this particular day(J-Day)) might try to set up something somewhat primitive, to etch out a new life perhaps in the same tunnels that saved them, find a way to survive - raid shops, perhaps even libraries, for there books, on the surface, catch rats, perhaps try and find a way to grow mushrooms in some of the tunnels, to outlast the nuclear winter, and then, when the weather becames better, try to find a way out of the cities with least surface exposure, and set up small townships outside the old towns, at some point they might run into skynet forces, or perhaps just worker drones and it is here things start. and the weapons the humans might also have gathered to protect themselfes against troublemakers is what is first used against skynet.

perhaps even skynet had only made worker machines, and in normal steel at first because it thought it had won, that will not take long of cause, after there first meeting sad


Message edited by KrelleK - Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 01:39
 
ChrisDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 01:38 | Message # 170
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As Humanity was rebuilding so was Skynet its factories didnt magically appear overnight after the bombs dropped then there was a significant delay before Skynet developed machines that get into the places that humans were hiding much less pass for humans and the early machines that were built would have been killable with the current weapons held by the military or stashed for after the war then as Skynet developed the technology they scavenged and used it themselves.

Nothing would have been pretty and I think it was made obvious that Skynet never understood people properly it didnt grasp their will to fight and live in addition to you are all assuming Skynet was trying to kill everyone yet if your trying to kill everyone you dont have prisons you just kill the people you capture whether it was for experiments or it wanted a legion of followers as it believed it had eiminated all threats to itself by killing off the majority of people in power is not made clear yet for one reason or the other the humans were doing well enough to cause Skynet to keep improving its machines until they could pass for human, created a time machine to kill a man before he is even born then as a child throughout the movies and show it was displayed that the machines were easy enough to kill with the right weapons Queeg died with 1 plasma rifle shot yet on other occasions machines had epic battles against each other as if they attacker didn't really want to kill the protector they would frequently disable to protector or get past it then go after their target instead of removing the protector which is something as a human wouldnt happen they would kill the protector leaving the target alone which might have been part of Skynets problem it sent units back in time that had no battle experience and units into the field that had no battle experience allowing people to avoid them more easily.
 
KrelleKDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 01:42 | Message # 171
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To Chris

to your last post smile


Message edited by KrelleK - Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 01:45
 
BlaziusDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 01:53 | Message # 172
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Quote (FordStaff)
The problem is that even the human race's prolonged survival is breaking the suspension of disbelief. Far more believable for victory rather than change of heart, is John Connor using his computer skills to actually combat sky-net directly.


Of course it is breaking it but it was already established in T 1 2 3 4 and if we go by a realistic story then the comic would be only 3 or less pages or movie would be 5 or less minutes anyway.

If we play by these rules then I ask why Skynet haven't sent back 60000 Terminators after John supported by 20000 liquid terminators and turned John and everybody who'd stop them into an organic mess?


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
KrelleKDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 01:56 | Message # 173
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Quote (Blazius)
If we play by these rules then I ask why Skynet haven't sent back 60000 Terminators after John supported by 20000 liquid terminators and turned John and everybody who'd stop them into an organic mess?


I can be wrong smile but i think the answer is resources smile
 
ChrisDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 01:59 | Message # 174
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Quote (Blazius)
If we play by these rules then I ask why Skynet haven't sent back 60000 Terminators after John supported by 20000 liquid terminators and turned John and everybody who'd stop them into an organic mess?


I think there is a theory to that that was used in Babylon 5 2 ancient races at war with each other using the younger races as their puppets, neither side was looking to win they were looking to prove who was right maybe Skynet wanted to prove it was right because as you say Blazius why not just send back 20 Terminators after Sarah or John but Skynet is not entirely stupid either it knows that people need to build it first so having machinces become public knowledge could adversly effect its creation and lets be honest th story would suck if it wasnt a 1 v 1 fight where the weaker protector dies to complete their mission in good Movie fashion
 
FordStaffDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 02:00 | Message # 175
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If we play by these rules then I ask why Skynet haven't sent back 60000 Terminators after John supported by 20000 liquid terminators and turned John and everybody who'd stop them into an organic mess?


What Krellek said. I am making an assumption that may or may not be backed up with dialogue from the movies or whatnot, and that assumption is that Time Travel expends HUMUNGOUS amounts of energy. Other wise the story would not make sense. If it costs many rescourses Sky-net will only be willing to attempt so many times.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.
 
BlaziusDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 02:12 | Message # 176
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What Krellek said. I am making an assumption that may or may not be backed up with dialogue from the movies or whatnot, and that assumption is that Time Travel expends HUMUNGOUS amounts of energy. Other wise the story would not make sense. If it costs many rescourses Sky-net will only be willing to attempt so many times.


Problem is that there were ALREADY more terminators in the past which Cameron, Derek, or John could handle and Skynet constantly sent back more and more, problem was that they all wandered after different useless targets instead of killing John together first. Besides I don't know if such limitation really exist( the source of this would be helpful I think to analyse it).

Quote (Chris)
I think there is a theory to that that was used in Babylon 5 2 ancient races at war with each other using the younger races as their puppets, neither side was looking to win they were looking to prove who was right maybe Skynet wanted to prove it was right because as you say Blazius why not just send back 20 Terminators after Sarah or John but Skynet is not entirely stupid either it knows that people need to build it first so having machinces become public knowledge could adversly effect its creation and lets be honest th story would suck if it wasnt a 1 v 1 fight where the weaker protector dies to complete their mission in good Movie fashion


They could do it easily in a way which wouldn't draw the attention, Catherine's little action wasn't revealed for example. All the humans would think it was an underworld business, gang war or something( Skynet has to clean up the mess through)

Quote (michelangelo)
When i hear that type of argument repeted in every good American blockbuster, i can't help thinking about the speech made by the US President (played by Bill Pullman) in Independance Day . I see you've learned the lesson too Blazius


That and a few strange anime and you'll learn the lesson pretty well biggrin


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!


Message edited by Blazius - Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 02:16
 
FordStaffDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 02:17 | Message # 177
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Problem is that there were ALREADY more terminators in the past which Cameron, Derek, or John could handle and Skynet constantly sent back more and more. Besides I don't know if such limitation really exist( the source of this would be helpful I think to analyse it).


If your asking why they only went one terminator at a time, I would say that it is just a glaring plot hole. Even if they can only send one at a time once per every 5 years, all they would need to do is send them back to the same exact time. It would make no difference if they are sent back in time separate if the can just send them back to the same period of time.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.
 
BlaziusDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 02:25 | Message # 178
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If your asking why they only went one terminator at a time, I would say that it is just a glaring plot hole. Even if they can only send one at a time once per every 5 years, all they would need to do is send them back to the same exact time. It would make no difference if they are sent back in time separate if the can just send them back to the same period of time.


Thats my point, Terminator is filled with plot holes and inconsistencies all the time so if we want to analyze it more then its not hard to break the suspension of disbelief pretty quickly. TBH it was originally a mindless action thriller movie with sci-fi elements so its understandable. But the presentation is good enough I think to forget this and enjoy the series for what it is.


Summer Glau is so awesome, it isn't even funny!
Blood for the Blood God! Skulls for the Skull Throne!
 
FordStaffDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 02:30 | Message # 179
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Thats my point, Terminator is filled with plot holes and inconsistencies all the time so if we want to analyze it more then its not hard to break the suspension of disbelief pretty quickly. TBH it was originally a mindless action thriller movie with sci-fi elements so its understandable. But the presentation is good enough I think to forget this and enjoy the series for what it is.


As you say the concept was never meant to be over-analyzed originally. It would need HUGE reworking and reconstruction to become coherent. When it comes to Terminator your best bet is to just watch and enjoy, while ignoring the time travel and resistance complications.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 02:30
 
ChrisDate: Saturday, 19 Nov 2011, 02:30 | Message # 180
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Quote (Blazius)
Problem is that there were ALREADY more terminators in the past which Cameron, Derek, or John could handle and Skynet constantly sent back more and more, problem was that they all wandered after different useless targets instead of killing John together first. Besides I don't know if such limitation really exist( the source of this would be helpful I think to analyse it).


One was sent back to kill John Connor, he died in a bank vault explosion as far as Skynet knew so it never sent more after him the terminators running around in that time were completing other missions which John, Cameron, sarah and Derek became aware of as they started to hunt Skynet in addition to the soldiers message you could also say that sending back 100x of machines wouldnt get the job done just as well as 1 if they don't know where to find him but 1 soldier doing a job that was kept low key is nothing new its been done for years by humans so why is it surprising that Skynet who would have read all the military documents about those missions decide it is not an effective strategy given its using a machine that is far harder to kill then a human is.
 
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