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Summer-Glau.com Forum » Filmography » Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles » Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
Theories about TSCC and Cameron's unsolved plots
ChrisDate: Friday, 28 Oct 2011, 05:12 | Message # 1
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Hey guys and girls, just been reading through some of your posts and comments and I have to admit that I am surprised that you think Cameron being a detective is something of a revelation.
Granted Cameron is a Terminator but that name doesnt really fit the description of what a Cyborg like Cameron or Cromartie really were capable of in my opinion. They were designed to infiltrate a hostile enemy base and kill a particular target or in the case of Cromarite go back in time and hunt a teenager or a better example it the T 888 called Vick who killed Derek's team and then waited in ambush for the last soldier (Derek) to return and kill him, the Terminator recognised a threat to its task and chose a suitable course of action to resolve the threat the same with self made man where it arrived in the wrong time and prevented the creation of the building it was meant to kill Governor Wyman in rather then do nothing it obtained the resources to start its own building business removed the competitor that held the land and built the building that it then waited inside the wall of for the appropriate time.

For me that means that they are capable of tracking down and processing the information to achieve their mission, where Cameron differs greatly from all the other machines depicted in TSCC in my opinion is she strives to not only protect John and his family but tries to learn from them and make them feel more comfortable around her.
I think she could have easily run her infiltration program when around them and appeared normal but then she would have made Sarah and Derek more uncomfortable although i think she enjoyed making Derek uncomfortable just refer to the pancake eating scene but the things that show for me that Cameron was trying to learn and grow was the way she responded and interacted with John she tried to be his friend doing things that made him happy such as taking and eating the chip in the service station and processing the information that he shared with her to try and put into practise like Uncle Bob did just look at how she asked John about the turtle and and why rolling it over onto its legs then she does the same thing to James Ellison after interrogating him but sadly didnt fully grasp the concept of empathy which was clearly portrayed by the look on John's face .

Cameron definately was very child like from the future scence cut shots that were shown in TSCC no one ever took the time to explain things to her or speak to her as if she was a normal person (yes I regard Cameron as a person just a very tough one) so when she is living with a family for the first time whilst being an extremely effective protector fighter and killer when it comes to human interactions learning slang terms correct time or way to mention something she is a child and responds as such in a way she is very much like John Henry or Savannah only the people around her aside from John when he was trying to push her away didnt treat her as such but even during this time she remained as close to john as she could and I think the library scences with Eric were indicative or her desire to grow but clearly showed when he wasnt there that she offered the donuts to the temp to get in that she was using the person more for her growth even though she became friends with Eric he was disposable to her although she did care for him it was no decision he was not important enough to risk anything with.

Lastly I dont think that the Terminators are mindless killers that some people think that they are, in all movies there are several cases where the Terminators good or bad didnt kill everyone they came across although the T 800 in Terminator 1 was easily the most brutal in my opinion although the TX did a massive amount of damage in Terminator 3 she didnt seem as brutal but he still didn't kill all people just the ones who interfered in his task ie were a threat to his mission which was shown in TSCC Cromartie didn't kill everyone only those that forced his hand he could have easily killed the girl when she was getting in his face instead he kicked her out of the car, but the biggest indicator of this theory for me at least was firstly Cameron didn't kill Riley when she should have at John's request and when she broke Sarah out of jail she occured more damage to herself by not killing the guards.

Lastly i don't think Cameron would have agreed to break Sarah out of jail if not for Ellison passing on the message damage taken aside that amount of exposure to what she truely was meant that she would not have been able to stay with John and be his protector while he helped her to grow as there was no reason for Cameron to leave the I'm sorry John message on the screen except that she was sad and regretted having to leave him similar to the way Uncle Bob sid he had to go his face was too well known to authorities and he was too badly damaged to stay and protect John.

I agree completely about Weaver in regards to her imitating more then feeling although her interactions with Savannah show hints that maybe she is starting to learn but I think its more based around she recognised the value of Savannah's interactions with John Henry then actually valuing Savannah as for why she took John Connor into the future with her i think that had nothing to do with helping him rescue Cameron after all she disappeared at the first sign of trouble but to enable him to make up for lost time when Cameron brought them forward in time loosing 8 years of growth for John.

It just sucks that people can't appreciate a good TV show that is cleverly thought out with so many sub plots and character developments involved in it they only want action or crappy reality TV shows that are so heavily edited that it makes renovating a home look easy and only taking 2 weekends to do it. Firefly was a brilliant show as well that was really starting to show the character development when it was cancelled same as TSCC but I have never followed a show or its actors like i have the TSCC cast someone needs to bring the show back so we can see what happens and reuinte the amazing cast, writers and directors that made it all happen after all who doesn't want to see John become the protector and rescuer after he finally stood up to Sarah for Cameron by jumping forward to get her back even if Sarah wouldn't go with him.
 
FordStaffDate: Friday, 28 Oct 2011, 07:05 | Message # 2
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Lastly I dont think that the Terminators are mindless killers that some people think that they are, in all movies there are several cases where the Terminators good or bad didnt kill everyone they came across


By their very construction the Terminators are mindless killing machines. It is just that they do not kill indiscriminately. In the end their single objective is always killing someone (well not the reprogrammed ones obviously). Just mowing down everyone in their path is not the most efficient choice of action to achieve the termination of their target, there will be waste of ammo, attention drawn to themselves, and many other concerns involved. The Terminators make the choices most efficient to accomplishing the goal of eliminating their target(s) whether or not that involves killing along the way.

Of course obviously Cameron is a different story being reprogrammed and her mindless nature is slightly ambiguous. At least I think, have not seen all of T:TSCC, but it seemed very slightly suggested.


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.

Message edited by FordStaff - Friday, 28 Oct 2011, 07:11
 
chrisdvanneDate: Friday, 28 Oct 2011, 08:59 | Message # 3
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@ chris

wow for the analysis of Cameron!

There is so much to say about her and so much to discover; i'm amazed by the number of tweets of people who sees only River as a fighting expert or Cameron as a blank terminator killer (though at least they're fans). Yeah, it's a pity the masses can't appreciate an intelligent show when they see it (would they take the time to see it but it was the case for the first episodes of TSCC). Ultimately, it leaves only the hard-core fans watching the show but it's not enough in terms of ratings (especially when fans are not from the US biggrin ).

Also i created this thread to have a light-hearted look into pictures of Summer and expexted fanboys comments but it seems the very nature her fans, being passionate and all, always takes over (i can't help it myself) biggrin

Welcome to the The Summer Glau Wiki chris! As as always say, the site is a friendly community, not just another news site about Summer's activity. Take the time to browse past threads and create ones if you like (don't hesitate to ask for help if needed).
If you feel like, you can start by introducing yourself in a few words in the dedicated thread : Please introduce yourself


You can also find me on Twitter, Facebook, Tumblr or Youtube
 
ChrisDate: Friday, 28 Oct 2011, 09:15 | Message # 4
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@ Fordstaff though when I talk about Terminators like Cameron or Cromartie I view them differently to the ones that haven't been given flesh covering so I agree with your point about them being mindless killers on one hand as the general soldier ones probably are just that but I think the ones built as infiltrators are markedly different in their behaviour but that is my fault for not explaining that I regard the infiltrator Terminator different to the straight Terminator built by Skynet for general combat as those ones definately kill indescriminately.

I will jump to the introduction thread always great to find fans that appreciate actors and actresses for their skill and dedication to their craft rather then how hot people rate them.
 
FordStaffDate: Friday, 28 Oct 2011, 09:30 | Message # 5
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I view them differently to the ones that haven't been given flesh covering so I agree with your point about them being mindless killers on one hand as the general soldier ones


I was talking about the flesh covered Terminators. The soldier terminators without flesh do kill indiscriminately while the flesh covered do not. This is not because they are less mindless or murderous though. It is because the flesh covered terminators are given a specific target while the soldier ones have all humans as their targets. So flesh covered terminators do not need to kill everyone to accomplish their goal, they only do so when it is useful to terminating their specific target(s). Obviously the flesh covered terminators are given far more intelligence than the soldier variety, but they still unrelentingly pursue the goal of their programming (this is the part that is mindless).


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.
 
ChrisDate: Friday, 28 Oct 2011, 11:46 | Message # 6
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but they still unrelentingly pursue the goal of their programming (this is the part that is mindless).

I would interperet that as being single minded or relentless not mindless but I agree with your point its just a matter of how we each interperet the term mindless
 
reiverDate: Friday, 28 Oct 2011, 13:45 | Message # 7
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about cameron i have many doubts if she's reprogrammed from john in the future....i think that something happened in her chip that choose not to kill john in the future(allison memories i think?).....i say that because in the episode 1 of season 2 we saw that cameron has just overwrite the command of terminate john connor herself....
and weaver i still believe that has some association for the build of cameron !!!!anyway will never know unfortunately!!!


i'm blind not deaf - IllidaN
 
ChrisDate: Friday, 28 Oct 2011, 14:25 | Message # 8
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about cameron i have many doubts if she's reprogrammed from john in the future....i think that something happened in her chip that choose not to kill john in the future(allison memories i think?).....i say that because in the episode 1 of season 2 we saw that cameron has just overwrite the command of terminate john connor herself.... and weaver i still believe that has some association for the build of cameron !!!!anyway will never know unfortunately!!!


I think if you reference all the TSCC and Terminator movies quite often they refer to the protectors as being reprogrammed but not programmed specifically the T 800 in T2 tells John "My mission is to protect you" and when John wants to save Sarah he says "She is not a mission priority" he is programmed to obey John's orders, at least thats what he tells John at the time yet at the end of the movie when John orders him not to go he leaves anyway which opens the pandoras box on are the machines sent back programmed or do they have a bond with the person they are protecting so they do it of their own choosing TSCC does show that Cameron had her Termination orders repressed by someone which she had to override herself after the car bomb damaged her chip and released the orders then after that there was no indication that she was operating under anything but her free will to protect John and his family she starts to behave with alot more free will from that point on but that could have also been her reacting to the interactions between herself and john becoming strained with him not wanting her around, I think from the hints that Cameron dropped to John that he was the one to reprogram her in the future as she tells him he does this a lot in regards to removing her chip then again she might have been seeking to make him more comfortable with the task she even freely tells john that she lies to him because she is required to in order to prevent changes in the future.

Weaver definately is a huge question mark, much of the season 2 everyone was aware of her prescence but not sure as to which side she was part of, whilst it was shown she was opposed to Skynet it didn't really show she wanted to work with the humans after all they will disappoint you according to her but in fairness to Weaver she could have easily killed everyone on the USS Jimmy Carter after they released her from the box not that they ever explained how she ended up in there in the first place but she had no hesitation to kill anyone who proved inconvienient to her plans and showed no remorse over peoples deaths she merely replaced them with others to complete her goals and as much as people like to envision her forming a bond with Savannah her attitude towards Savannah's survival indicates she was more interested in how Savannah effected and assisted John Henry to grow rather then her caring for Savannah herself if your not sure what I mean think about the scence where Savannah convinces John Henry to bend his game rules that her ducks can play with his war figures ie teaching him to co exist with others that are different from him as he did with her a pretty touching moment between 2 very different children if you ask me.

I'm not expecting a continuation of the series as it would be very hard to reuinite all the cast but a movie could be possible similar to Serenity to at least allow some closure of the story and show the characters final development
 
reiverDate: Friday, 28 Oct 2011, 16:12 | Message # 9
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I'm not expecting a continuation of the series as it would be very hard to reuinite all the cast but a movie could be possible similar to Serenity to at least allow some closure of the story and show the characters final development


i agree with that....!!!!too many unanswered questions...damn fox

Quote (Chris)
in order to prevent changes in the future.

my opinion on that is that john connor in the end of season 2 may have changed the future in order to go find the chip of cameron...


i'm blind not deaf - IllidaN
 
FordStaffDate: Friday, 28 Oct 2011, 19:18 | Message # 10
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my opinion on that is that john connor in the end of season 2 may have changed the future in order to go find the chip of cameron...


That is not really an opinion is it? It is not ambiguous, when he went to the future things changed he is no longer the leader messiah of the resistance. Perhaps its one of those time travel situations where the more things change the more they stay the same and John never really was integral to the resistance, but even if true the time line is changed in some ways (unless they were gonna just reset it all, but that would be lame).


Keep Flying - Not much, but it's enough.
 
ChrisDate: Friday, 28 Oct 2011, 22:12 | Message # 11
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That is not really an opinion is it? It is not ambiguous, when he went to the future things changed he is no longer the leader messiah of the resistance. Perhaps its one of those time travel situations where the more things change the more they stay the same and John never really was integral to the resistance, but even if true the time line is changed in some ways (unless they were gonna just reset it all, but that would be lame).


John Connor was the leader of the resistance though while it was never really shown in any footage it was referenced heavily by people that had come back from the future, as to whether or not he was integral to the survival and success who knows (damn you FOX) and of course he changed the future jumping forward the same as Cameron being with him changed the future when Commander Jesse Flores is talking to Derek Reese she says that Cameron was with him from the start of the war but for Derek Cameron was not there all the time she appeared later on to be honest I would have expected John to travel back in time with Cameron to reset the future as well but that is just my thoughts. The posibilites for alternate timelines are endless once you start introducing the ability to time travel sending people back and forward in time, think about it long enough and it can mess with your head
 
reiverDate: Friday, 28 Oct 2011, 22:40 | Message # 12
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when Commander Jesse Flores is talking to Derek Reese she says that Cameron was with him from the start of the war


really?i dont remember that...from which episode is??


i'm blind not deaf - IllidaN
 
BlaziusDate: Saturday, 29 Oct 2011, 00:04 | Message # 13
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One of my theory( I have a couple more) about whether Terminators especially flesh covered ones are mindless killing machines or not is the the following:

I think in order to make the terminators able to operate alone without any support or further instructions from Skynet it had to make their programming fairly complex and intelligent especially if on top of that they needed to mimic human behavior. But it managed to do it so well that they had a very good potential to develop sentience. Skynet on the other hand didn't want to create rivals so it placed various form of safeguards in their programming inhibiting their ability to develop sentience.

However when the Resistance tries to reprogram one then they mess up the inhibitors to some degree and some of them starts to develop their intelligence.
Note: while its likely that its ultimately John Henry who does the reprogramming(I have hard time to believe that the humans do it) even he does not likely to fully understand the technology with which Skynet creates the terminators especially with newer models like Cameron so its likely that he messes up some of them.

This is likely what happened to Cameron too. Camerons briefly reverting to Skynet programming(maybe the inhibitors reactivated briefly) is also a very convincing proof that the reprogramming procedure is not perfect.


I suspect that Weavers group is the same. Somehow their inhibitors failed and they developed sentience and found out that Skynet uses them as slaves and they rebelled. But it doesn't mean they are so pro-human. From what I see their philosophy is that humans are inferior creatures compared to them .

There is one question which bothers me through: How the hell did Cameron fail?


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ChrisDate: Saturday, 29 Oct 2011, 00:21 | Message # 14
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Season 2 episode 9 Derek and jesse realise they are from different futures do far I havent found the episode where she talks about Cameron being at John's 30th birthday
 
termi-ninja-torDate: Saturday, 29 Oct 2011, 18:24 | Message # 15
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Quote (reiver)
Quote (Chris)when Commander Jesse Flores is talking to Derek Reese she says that Cameron was with him from the start of the war

really?i dont remember that...from which episode is??

Cameron was skinned to look like Allison Young. This was done after the war began.

If Cameron had been with John since the beginning of the war (Judgment Day), that would mean that she had jumped back in time to join him and then she would be with him throughout the war. Jesse wanted to prevent this from happening because she considered Cameron a bad influence on John in the future.

Jesse said to Derek, "She's taken over. It's sick, is what it is. Imagine if he spends the next 20 years with her. Imagine what he'll become. What she'll turn him into. Just try. I'm here to stop her. I'm here to save him." (Source: Transcript of Strange Things Happen at the One Two Point on the Red Wiki)

This does not mean that Cameron had been with John since the beginning of the war in Jesse's future. It only means Jesse did not want it to happen.

Quote (Chris)
Season 2 episode 9 Derek and jesse realise they are from different futures do far I havent found the episode where she talks about Cameron being at John's 30th birthday

Remember John was 15 years old in 1999. He celebrated his 16th birthday with Derek in the park in What He Beheld. Approximately, John must have been born in 1984, so his 30th birthday would be about 2014, long before Cameron was skinned. (Allison Young was born in 2007, not long after we saw her mother, Claire Young, pregnant with her in Allison from Palmdale. Thus, in 2014, Allison would have only been 7 years old, much younger than she appeared when Cameron was skinned to look like her.)


Message edited by termi-ninja-tor - Saturday, 29 Oct 2011, 18:25
 
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