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Summer-Glau.com Forum » Filmography » Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles » Does Catherine Weaver have feelings for Savannah?
Does Catherine Weaver have feelings for Savannah?
chrisdvanneDate: Monday, 11 Jul 2011, 19:21 | Message # 1
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I know it's easier to see only the cold blooded killer side in Weaver/T1001; and we saw that side more than once on the show. But nothing is that simple with Josh Friedman and there were occasions i asked myself what she was expecting in return for her behaviours. The same interrogations i had sometimes about John/Cameron interactions.
I'm looking at Savannah of course. One could think that she tries to be closer to her only to be a better infiltrator and fool the people around her but it could also be interpreted otherwise. As an A.I. trying to understand those weak and stupid humans that Skynet is looking to erase so hard. Who knows if the two of them were developping a kind of bond.


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GraniteDate: Monday, 11 Jul 2011, 20:04 | Message # 2
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I find it difficult to find evidence in favor of this ...

Theoretically, Weaver felt "parent" only feelings to John Henry, Savannah (hypothetically) could count on appreciation to Weaver in the long run, if John Henry helped develop, I think.


" It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think... "

" Pain ... It is the healing, purifying scalpel of our souls " - Warhammer 40000 universe.
 
chrisdvanneDate: Monday, 11 Jul 2011, 20:16 | Message # 3
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Quote (Granite)
I find it difficult to find evidence in favor of this ...


Weaver clearly see Savannah and John Henry as her childrens; she says "my daughter" all the time and said in finale episode "Our Boy" when speaking to James Ellison about gone-to-the-future John Henry.

When Weaver makes a photoshoot and ask Savannah to sit on her lap (leading to the little girl refusing and peeing on herself) there is no affection; but when on a latter episode Savannah jumps on her lap and says "it's cold" but stays and Weaver answers "i know", it's the start of a bond.

When John Henry and Savannah are on JH's desk and sing together, and Weaver opens slightly the door to see the two of them, you could almost see her smile : this is bonding.


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BlaziusDate: Monday, 11 Jul 2011, 20:38 | Message # 4
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What I've always found amusing in TSCC is that you could never truly separate when the given AI was just giving an automated response or its really aware of the situation. In the case of Weaver I would say that she started to develop feelings towards, because the T1000 series was already super-advanced
.
However I don't like this idea very much. For one Cameron was supposed to be the super-advanced terminator in the show and she further developed to be more advanced towards the end of the show. However they introduced an already more advanced model who was far superior to Cameron right away without any real development. This choice was a bit unwise IMO because it lessened the impact of the whole Cameron storyline. Of course the roots of this goes back to T2 with Uncle Bob and T1000 where I had the same problem. It made the whole Cameron story a bit more anti-climatic.


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chrisdvanneDate: Monday, 11 Jul 2011, 20:53 | Message # 5
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Quote (Blazius)
It made the whole Cameron story a bit more anti-climatic.

But it was Friedman's choice to introduce the Weaver family (Catherine, Savannah and James) in parallel with the Connor family. Overall i thinks it improves the show; it makes Cameron maybe less unique but to tell the truth it never really striked me. I don't think the two are competing in any domain, even if i reckon the T1000 is far more advanced.

Back to topic :
I think that Weaver showed motherly behaviour towards savannah, that goes far beyond the simple fact to appear as the real Catherine Weaver; what are the real motives is unclear and we can only speculate but the facts are here.
These behaviours contrast sharply with her tendancy to kill humans that stands in her way.

TSCC did not fail at showing us great killing moments from the T1001, as any Terminator fanchise should do and these moments are always mind blowing (especially when they remind us the movies); but more subtiles moments given by the serie is what make it distinguish itself from a basic action serie.


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chrisdvanneDate: Monday, 11 Jul 2011, 21:00 | Message # 6
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I'm sure there is plenty of moments in TSCC where Weaver shows she cares about Savannah; i quoted a few myself but could we find some more.

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DevoDate: Monday, 11 Jul 2011, 21:11 | Message # 7
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I think Weaver showed contrast to Cameron. I don't think Weaver cared for Savannah any more than she did the rest of humanity as a whole. She was like an alien entity coming from a scientific perspective, wanting to preserve a unique life form from extinction.

Cameron I believe was evolving and although she was cold and calculated all of the time, even when she made mistakes(because of the effect her actions would have on her relationship with John and potentially in the fight against Skynet), she seemed to develop her own set of quirks and what resembled human emotion. I think having been so close to John in the future she could not understand why John was pushing her away and being so cold to her in the present. She also had a thing for over analyzing so who knows what effect that would have on an artificial intelligence... a "learning computer". happy
 
chrisdvanneDate: Monday, 11 Jul 2011, 21:21 | Message # 8
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Contrary to you Devo, i think she cares about that little red-head human; she explained in the elevator to Ellison that she seemed to care more about Jonh Henry (when Savannah was with the Connor's) for survival reasons but it means she also cares about her.

The alledged humans feeling (wrong term) are not as advanced as those we think Cameron has (as you explained) but i'm convinvced they're is something.


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GraniteDate: Monday, 11 Jul 2011, 23:07 | Message # 9
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By the way, about the parallels between Cameron and Weaver.

Cameron - the nature of a common soldier of the Apocalypse - a fighter and bodyguard

Weaver, in contrast - the leader of machines, their "John Connor". And for all her personal issues are completely negligible value, much lower than for Cameron (Cam however also for debt - it's all). It comes from the future to create a new race machines, Weaver (in perspective) - "prophet", the progenitor of new machines, with emotions and living with people.

Also, you can add that the "big boss" often forgets about his own family in the pursuit of great goals ...


" It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think... "

" Pain ... It is the healing, purifying scalpel of our souls " - Warhammer 40000 universe.


Message edited by Granite - Monday, 11 Jul 2011, 23:09
 
TheSaviorDate: Tuesday, 12 Jul 2011, 16:00 | Message # 10
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IMHO

The Weaver, the Spider Queen, is leading the Machines to a new way. They probably has seen all the damage the machine has done to the planet cause they havent any emotions, so in order to preserve also theyr life and purpose, they are trying to stop skynet. But...and i say "BUT".
They are machines, they calculate, they run programs on a purpose.
If Skynet eliminate all the human and win the war, lefting only machines, wat's the purpose of his very existence?
Probably the rebel machines had calculated this. A world without humans, led by machines, had no sense, no purpose at all.
You remember Jhon Henry asking to Ellison about soul, afterlife, heaven...
They "care" to understand what they real meaning is here, if God Exist, if they have soul, and so on...
And since humans created them, they intend to learn all they can and try to figure out if there is any meanings to theyr existence and if they have a soul.

So i think Weaver care for Savannah since she is something that elp make her more human, more emotional, is the one, with Ellison, helping her to find her answer.
I'm sure she will protect Savannah with all her mighty in case of need. But if she must choise between S. and JH, she will protect Jhonn since is a matter of survival for her whole "specie".
She care for Savannah for what she rapresent, but on the opposite of what someone say during the serie "human ARE replaceable" since they can alwais found other humans to study, during the long life the machine have...centuries probably. John Henry is just ONE. Cannot be replaced.

Is a point of wiew ^^


"This isn't the first time we've done this..."
Cameron

The world is Maya The Illusion. Illusions are the foundation of reality. I am the Lord of Illusions.
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chrisdvanneDate: Tuesday, 12 Jul 2011, 16:18 | Message # 11
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We don't know Catherine Weaver's agenda, whet she's up to. We just know she wants to fight Skynet but it's not clear if she wants to eliminate the human race or not. She does not care about human life in general but my point is she does care about Savannah in particular.

It's John Connor who said machines are repleacable to Jesse, that's why he sent cyborgs (Arnold and Cameron) to save him in the past. I don't think Weaver wants to be more human, basically she is programmed to kill humans like every machine is; i repeat we don't know her goals other than fight Skynet. Once she had defeated Skynet, what does she intend to do with the humans left?


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chrisdvanneDate: Saturday, 27 Aug 2011, 14:23 | Message # 12
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I just rewatch a scene of Terminator 2 : at the begining, when John Connor is followed at the mall by the T1001 disguised as a police officer; he enters a corridor and then arnold appears with the rifle in a flower box. He says to young John Connor "Get down"; i could not help but thinking to Catherine Weaver saying the same words to John, Sarah and Ellison in TSCC finale while protecting them from the HK.



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MalfurionDate: Saturday, 27 Aug 2011, 17:08 | Message # 13
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Mhm, difficult... Damn, why is there no 3d season to answer the question? smile

When you compare humans and the machines in their evolution i prefer to separate the physical/mechanical on the one hand and the mental/psychological on the other.

To be greater than the sum of its parts - this describes the human brain/mind.
So could this also apply to an artificial intelligence?

What´s about Skynet? Andy Goodes: He becames angry and scared. I could not reassure him.
Consciousness?

The Terminator are at first only metal, machines. But Skynet gave them their (computer) chips which are designed after... himself? An artificial intelligence with consciousnes?

Second thought: The evolution of an artificial intelligence seems to be much, much faster than of human mind.

In the films was told by a T-800 that Skynet blocked the chips to restrict their free expansion.
(The humans have overstayed to do this to Skynet. )

In the future, John Connor begins to reprogramm the chips. Does he blocked them as well?
After that Cameron/Alison. After that chips with a automatic self-destruct programm to prevent reprogramming.

The top of the mechanical development: Liquid metal terminator. So what about their chips? Blocked? Or sovereign? Reprogrammed liquid metal terminator? Is that even possible?

Catherine Weaver? Build John Henry? Save human lives/mankind in that way? Why should she "betray" Skynet? Fight against it? Is that her conscious decision?

If this is her conscious decision, i think she can have feelings for Savannah because than she is similar to Camerons progress, but based on their different designs and programms on their chips Cameron progress to be a independent personality is faster.

First Savannah maybe is only part of her cover, later a part of John Henrys progress, but there are many little actions which make no sense or are not essential for Weavers mission.
And the strongest evidence: John Henry and Savannah singing together and Catherine Weavers reaction.

Mhm, difficult... Damn, why is there no 3d season to answer the question? tongue


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Message edited by Malfurion - Sunday, 28 Aug 2011, 22:14
 
chrisdvanneDate: Sunday, 28 Aug 2011, 07:09 | Message # 14
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100% agree with you Malfurion : there is too many hints throughout TSCC for not at least aks the question in this thread.
Alas we will never have the answer.

Quote (Malfurion)
In the films was told by a T-800 that Skynet blocked the chips to restrict their free expansion.
(The humans have overstayed to do this to Skynet. )

Indeed i re-watched the deleted scene from T2 where Sarah and John extrated the T-800 chip to remove Skynet's limitation.

Quote (Malfurion)
When you compare humans and the machines in their evolution i prefer to separate the physical/mechanical on the one hand and the mental/psychological on the other.

When i watch sci-fi, i rarely question the credibility from a physical/mechanical point of view, i am all for suspension of diesbelief. I prefer to focus on what type of message the writers wanted to deliver.
In Smallville for example, during the first scene where Clark saves Lana after he revealed he has superpowers; Lana was pushed off of a building roof and fall in the empty space, Clark jumps after her, catch her and land on top of a car holding Lana in her arms. The truth is, Lana should have broken her neck but Smallville geeks in a forum have debated for pages about the strenght of the impact, the laws of gravity, the laws of free fall,...
By doing this, they completely missed the beauty of the scene, the love between the 2 characters, the fact it was it was a turning point in Lana/Clarck relationship and finally missed the message delivered by the scene, because they were obsessed by the law of physics.

Smallville scene on Youtube (embedding options disabled) : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-yYIESFa0Q


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MalfurionDate: Sunday, 28 Aug 2011, 19:09 | Message # 15
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Beauty of a scene... Right, this is much more relevant for many of us than evolution, physics or something else. Thats why i love Summer doing those scenes! biggrin

In an other thread are other evidences for this viewpiont (favourite scene with Summer): Action, blood, explosions? No, most mentioned the emotionally charged scenes - Me too. - and their own reaction or thoughts to this.
Once again interesting that the focus of lots of discussions about a series with machines, murder and war is on emotions and the art of those scenes including emotions and where the viewer is not so sure about that.


Shyness and Summer met one day, Shyness had to speak first.
 
Summer-Glau.com Forum » Filmography » Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles » Does Catherine Weaver have feelings for Savannah?
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